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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 247
Location: Orange County, California
I got this one: http://www.rei.com/product/826021/rei-k ... ideo-inner older version.

And I love it, they call it rain jacket, but from my point of view it is a solid light mountain shell and eVent is a great membrane (at least I'm a fan). A little less expensive (especially when you can get it on sale, which REI has all the time) than similar jackets from the big brands. Only bummer is no under arm vents, but I don't need them. I combine that with 3 baselayers and a light down jacket. Down jacket comes on at lunchbreak. Shell is for riding and strong winds. If it's supercold, down jacket can go under shell. That and varying 3 baselayers should cover a very wide range of temperatures. It does for me. Hood fits over helmet too if that's your thing when it's dumping.
But I second what Ecobrad and others have said. I never wear a jacket on the up for long, unless there is a strong windchill. Might start out with it on if it's cold, but usually comes off quick. If you sweat a good deal, most membranes are limited to what they can handle. (Of course they like to claim otherwise)

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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:16 am
Posts: 490
Location: Salida, Flagstaff
If shopping for one jacket for multiple purposes I would look for these attributes, at a minimum:

- Waterproof hardshell (you need maximum protection for bad conditions)
- Bomber, durable fabric and seams (durable to abuse and long-lasting)
- Spacious, adjustable hood (helmet-compatible weather protection)
- Lots of ventilation, underarm at least, for uptracking (to mitigate the inevitable lack of breath-ability that attends bomber hardshells)
- Ample storage in locations that remain accessible when wearing a pack (so that getting at stuff doesn't require undoing your pack)

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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 241
Location: 109-blocks-of-watch-yo-f'n-back, CA
Check out the Trew Cosmic jacket. Nice fusion of style and function, bomber, reasonably lightweight, very well thought out.

For ultra-ultra light, Arcyteryx Alpha SV or one of the new Neoshells. I find i rarely need heavily waterproof stuff when I tour, unless it's freezing rain @ 34F, then nothing is waterproof enough anyway.

2-3oz windshells are nice to have for the way up.

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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
I really like my Loki Myth SoftShell Jacket for B/C touring! :thumpsup:

Loki has some really cool features that are not in any other mountain jackets.

See:

http://www.lokiusa.com/index.php

http://www.lokiusa.com/product_detail.php?id=C101


Loki, LLC
2249 Broadway, Suite 8
Grand Junction, CO 81507

Tel: 970-248-9693
Fax: 970-241-8032

E-mail: loki@lokiusa.com
Web: http://www.lokigear.com

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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 421
Location: san diego
I forget which one it is, but I have a NF Summit series shell that is probably my favorite jacket of all time. Ultra wind and water proof, taped/sealed seams, zippers, etc., pit zips, hood, pow skirt, ample pockets. Forget whether it's Goretex, but that shit is bomber. Normally too warm in the skinner but a sweet outer layer as part of a good laying system. Looks like this :wink:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
I'm still looking for a shell I'm totally happy with. Couple thoughts if you're looking at hardshells:

- Look for a powder skirt or at least some snaps that will connect to little webbing hooks that may be on your pants (some sort of pants/jacket interface). Just having a draw string around the bottom of the jacket ain't enough to keep snow out of your crack when you tomahawk. And everyone tomahawks, just not everyone admits it. :)

- Pit zips are KEY for the up.

- Speaking of zippers, ones that don't require two hands to actually operate are nice. Some of the ultra waterproof ones bug me in that regard, getting the pit zips open can require yoga moves.

As far as skins in the jacket, yes that can actually be useful. IMO it's not about speed or drying out, I've found it mainly useful when the skins are super cold and aren't sticking anymore. Then having them in the jacket even a short time can warm them up enough to stick.


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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:59 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 12:17 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Wasangeles
Resort insulation and wind protection is a completely different need than for touring.

Winter

Touring top layer - Shell ONLY if it's dumping or wet. If it aint rainin keep your got-damn shell in the pack. If it's high pressure keep your got-damned shell in your got-damned car. In the words of an IMG guide that did this TR --> http://www.famousinternetskiers.com/trip-reports/10-11/nisqually-ice-cliff/ "If it's not precipitating you should not be wearing Gore-Tex. It will make you sweat and hinder evaporation at the same time."

Base layer - I love the orage polyester layers that have been on sale lately. Soft touch and easy for the skin to warm. Very breathable, which is key.

Mid layer - Dead bird atom LT.. vented sides, highly wind resistant front/back/arms/hood + 60g of insulation that won't be compromised by uptrack perspiration.

Outer layer - on the up it better be fucking cold b/c the first two layers will keep you warm down to 0 without wind, higher temps with wind. The LT and breathable base are amazing at keeping the skin warm but letting excess heat dissipate.

Changeover from up to down in wind or bitter cold - 100g synthetic insulation parka with DWR. Again, no need for a shell unless it's dumping, wet or the wind is howling.

Downhill - base/mid/outer is appropriate when <20, usually just base/mid when >20. The wind feels good and gets rid of perspiration. With a parka in colder temps you get a lot less heat loss and stay comfy.

Chairlift - It's usually appropriate to have an extra layer on, assuming your downhill clothes are appropriate. You're not exerting yourself and have less spare heat to share with the world.

So your question of what jacket to wear leads to questions about what you're wearing beneath the layer in question. And it also leads to the question of whether or not you're using a layering system.

There is no quiver killer when it comes to upper body heat management in the mountains - particularly if you include the extreme situations of skinning uphill in the sun vs. riding a chairlift in the shade with wind.

Learn the way your body responds to different situations and get the lightest layers you can that perform when wet. And for god's sake, don't wear goretex when it's sunny.

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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:31 am
Posts: 206
I have both an Event shell and a Columbia omni-tech shell. I prefer my Columbia peak to peak shell as it is virtually weightless. Its also a waterproof membrane which is a requirement breath's like no other. As a warm blooded sweaty mess of a hiker, it has been a process of figuring out what the proper gear is to minimize sweat related issues. I usually start with a wool skin tight base layer, another layer to draw the sweat out and my shell. Grid fleece rules. For the price, the peak to peak is amazing. I owned a alpha sv and wasn't to pleased with it. Not to say gore isn't amazing but like others have said, there are so many alternative membranes out there. Note: I personally cannot hike in any softshell as I overheat quickly. With that said, Stoic welder lo softshell is a super deal. Check geartrade.com and also don't forget any purchase from REI or backcountry.com can be returned no questions asked at any point in time even after extended use.


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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:45 pm
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Location: hopefully not at work
jimw wrote:
- Look for a powder skirt or at least some snaps that will connect to little webbing hooks that may be on your pants (some sort of pants/jacket interface). Just having a draw string around the bottom of the jacket ain't enough to keep snow out of your crack when you tomahawk. And everyone tomahawks, just not everyone admits it. :)


I would offer an alternate perspective. I hate powder skirts, especially ones that are not removable. My preference is to wear a combination hard shell/soft shell pair of bibs on days when I expect substantial powder. Soft shell upper breathes well, and hard shell bottom with full side zips to dump heat on the up track. Something like the following:

Image

Obviously, there are lots of combinations that work. And, at least in my experience, there is no one jacket that excels in all conditions and seasons. One needs to understand that if the desire is to have a single jacket for everything you are going to have to make some concessions in its use at various times. :twocents:

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
163W Jones Solution, Phantom Alphas, Dynafit TLT5
162 Furberg


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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 1866
Location: in between
just got a new marmot alpinist.
light, compact, 3L gortex which I want in a shell for the cold wet sierra storms


hey wjb - I have a lightly used marmot alpinist from maybe 3 seasons ago if you're interested. Large, Green.


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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
96avs01 wrote:
jimw wrote:
- Look for a powder skirt or at least some snaps that will connect to little webbing hooks that may be on your pants (some sort of pants/jacket interface). Just having a draw string around the bottom of the jacket ain't enough to keep snow out of your crack when you tomahawk. And everyone tomahawks, just not everyone admits it. :)


I would offer an alternate perspective. I hate powder skirts, especially ones that are not removable. My preference is to wear a combination hard shell/soft shell pair of bibs on days when I expect substantial powder. Soft shell upper breathes well, and hard shell bottom with full side zips to dump heat on the up track. Something like the following:

Image

You're gonna post all that and not give details on that bib? C'mon! :) I've actually been looking at bibs too, so interested in any feedback/suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:33 pm
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Location: San Diego
Curious about bibs too. Functionality wise they look killer, i'd just be concerned about getting hot in my stomach area on the skin track. You get that problem at all? Feel any difference when down to your base layer only with or without bib?


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 Post subject: Re: shopping for a jacket, what is best for touring
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:45 pm
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Location: hopefully not at work
jimw wrote:
You're gonna post all that and not give details on that bib? C'mon! :) I've actually been looking at bibs too, so interested in any feedback/suggestions.


My bad :oops: , Patagonia Six Chuter (discontinued).

jetlag wrote:
Curious about bibs too. Functionality wise they look killer, i'd just be concerned about getting hot in my stomach area on the skin track. You get that problem at all? Feel any difference when down to your base layer only with or without bib?


Since mine have a softshell upper its a non-issue. Could be an issue on a hardshell only style bib.

And FWIW regarding jacket options, I usually opt for a Patagonia Stretch Element. In addition to a drawcord on the hem it also has an elastic strap that connects from the bottom of the zipper closure, passes between the rider's/skier's legs and connects to the back of the jacket to prevent the jacket from 'riding up'.

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
163W Jones Solution, Phantom Alphas, Dynafit TLT5
162 Furberg


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