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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:06 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Mt Shasta
Utah really said this:

"Unfortunately the people who have got on here and tried to tell others how to act have only come off sounding like self- righteous guys on their

What soft booters or anyone else should notice about Joey's shredding is how he interprets the mountain, slashes that feature, pops that one. A skier doesn't see the mtn that way only true shredder, one with the mountain, surfing the earth."


Talk about self righteous...and dead wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKUHDUH ... BCC1EBB81A

I think he passed Joey somewhere in the third run.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:41 am
Posts: 294
Location: Altadena SoCal
Allz I know is two things. . .
1. This is totally worth getting worked up about.
and
2. My whole winter is shot until we solve this.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1510
Location: Colorado
HansGLudwig wrote:
Allz I know is two things. . .
1. This is totally worth getting worked up about.
and
2. My whole winter is shot until we solve this.



LOL, thanks Hans! Right now, conditions just suck in Colorado, so perhaps us CO riders are spending a little too much time on the interwebs and not enough time slashing POW...

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm
Posts: 870
My goodness Shasta I was trying to bring my snowboard brothers together making the point that no matter what we ride were still one in the same. I wasn't trying to piss off the one skier on this site. I should have just kept my mouth shut. Take care.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Washington
This has probably been covered before but... you hack up a pair of harboots and get flex that is comparable to _____ pair of softboots. Are we talking Driver X/Malamute territory? Or softer?


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 851
Location: hopefully not at work
powslash wrote:
This has probably been covered before but... you hack up a pair of harboots and get flex that is comparable to _____ pair of softboots. Are we talking Driver X/Malamute territory? Or softer?


You are only considering the descent portion of your trip with that thought process. How long do you spend ascending vs. descending? Need to consider the advantages in both aspects of your outing.

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1510
Location: Colorado
powslash wrote:
This has probably been covered before but... you hack up a pair of harboots and get flex that is comparable to _____ pair of softboots. Are we talking Driver X/Malamute territory? Or softer?


powslash: I used my Driver Xs as the model for the flex I wanted to get out of the TLT5. My TLT5 actually ended up a little softer. I think 96av… has a good point though, depending on what your typical riding and touring is like you might not want to make the boots too soft medially and laterally, which could compromise touring performance.
Once one gets the hang of cutting down the cuff (a little at a time) one realizes than one can dial in the flex pretty precisely to individual preference.
I remember karkis took a pair of Scarpa Lasers (generally way to stiff for riding) and ended up removing the entire front part of the cuff and upper buckle, just leaving a "highback", as I recall he said this was super soft, and too soft for really touring, but he mentioned he could tweak airs like riders did in the old days...

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http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Geez, I actually went splitboarding for a couple days and missed out on all the excitement on this thread! :)

Barrows, no hard feelings man, I really get the feeling you honestly don't intend to come across in any negative way, which actually the only reason I mentioned it... cuz I think sometimes your posts come across that way unintentionally. I think it's just another example if the difference between talking on the interwebz and talking face to face in Real Life. Actually I think it would be great if you, me, BG, and Henning were all in the same room talking about this stuff and actually checking out our different setups. (BTW, what boot size are you? Maybe I'll come out there one of these days and you can show me a properly dialed hardboot setup... and you can ride my 148 Burton Spliff with softboots! :))

Got more questions about the boot overhang thing but I'll stop threadjacking. Agreed with what UTAH and others said... Joey is just a smooth rider regardless of what boot he's using.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
BGnight wrote:
I think bcd's koflach oxygen with toe bail/highback and ankle strap makes a lot of sense. A lighter fitwell softboot but maybe with a soft plastic (really a hardboot/softboot hybrid) that has good ankle articulation in all directions that uses a separate high back and ankle strap but has a toe bail and dynafit touring bracket. He was/is onto something.

Last time I talked to him I think he said he had bailed on that design. Too much work keeping the frankenstein system going. He also mentioned that after going back to soft boots he realized he liked them a lot better for certain things, like routes where you are scrambling on rocks. But of course missed other things like the step-kicking ability of those hardboots.

Of course if saw some progress in a production hardboot setup that worked well out of the box and didn't require a shitload of mods, more folks might adopt it.

BTW got some size 11 Oxygens if anyone is interested...


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:55 am
Posts: 116
Location: London/Berlin
I recommend all the doubters to borrow a pair of TLT5s and the required bindings from a friend for two or three days. For me the last three days were
Day 1 was kind of introductionary, amazingly it took me no more than 2 or 3 pistes to get the feeling of the system.
Day 2 was powder day. Lots of surfing. Impossible on hardboots? Read the first sentence again and follow the advice.
Day 3 was La Grave - for those over the pond - one gondola to 3200 meters and not a single ski run. Lots of forrests, couloirs and technicle descents. going Only freeride down to 1400m. I couldn't appreciate the improvement in control more. I see my self doing things I didn't feel like attempting before.

May be it's because of the Voile plates I have mounted the bindings on and the slack of this system, but I feel that I have lost only a bit of sideways flex (think getting the knees closer together and away) and not much difference in forward flex.

Anyway, bottom line is - try before bashing online. I am starting to see the reason of barrows non-stop repeating "try properly set up system first". It's for a reason. Thank you, barrows, for the advice.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:55 am
Posts: 1001
Location: Wasatch
god can this thread die already.

I like rye more than bourbon, and my opinion is more important than anyone else's on here, and anyone that doesn't agree is wrong. grow a dick.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 32
Location: Valdez, Alaska
I actually really appreciate this thread. I know people can get kind of shitty with arguments and so on, but I've gotten quite a bit of what I think is good perspective. Personally, I'm just about sold on hard boots. I know I hate skinning with these clunky soft boots and bindings. How nice it would be to only have light boots, and ones that could kick step and not slip around and feel awkward while hiking. Whatever boots you choose, though, the mountains are there for all of us, and it's great inspiration to me to see people so passionate about getting out there, however they choose to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:55 am
Posts: 116
Location: London/Berlin
Another plus for hardboots, again in touring mode - more natural stride, without lifting the ski.
The no-walk mode of softboots + the highback of the bindings force softies to make shorter strides and to lift partialy or entirely the ski, when touring. Also the axis of rotation is directly at the end of the toes and on their plane, instead of being forward and under of them with soft bindings and a pin (much worse if using Voile adaptor plates).
Something that I have observed quiet a lot with a friend riding Spark Burners on Prior AMF 160 with 32s and I experienced last season with Spark Burners on Never Summer Summit with Forum Destroyer boots. Yes, it's avoidable with practice, you can get used to it, but you can get used to being in a prison too :lol:

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