Deprecated: Function set_magic_quotes_runtime() is deprecated in /home/split/public_html/talk/common.php on line 106
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 942: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 942: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 942: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3545: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3547: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3548: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3549: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
Splitboard.com Forums • View topic - Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist


Splitboard.com Forums

The World's first exclusive splitboard discussion forums






It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:01 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 169 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
Zude wrote:
voile



I'm open to researching anything, but I have zero knowlege about Voile product.
Is there a specific model you suggest looking at from them?

Thanks!

Edit:
Looked at Voile.
Both of their split models are available in wide-enough criteria within reasonable length. :thumpsup:
-The Palendrome model comes in a 162 Wide, with a constant radius sidecut, and smooth radius rocker profile. This one looks like a good candidate. I ride a center-mount symetrical Ride DH2.1 Wide (26.2 waist) board most days too... so I dig that shape.
http://www.voile.com/voile-splitboards/ ... -2013.html

-The Artisan model comes in a 162 Wide, but has a rocker/Camber profile that I'm not into... Lumpy gravy.



That brings my options up to:
-Venture Euphoria
-Jones Hovercraft (need to verify waist-width, most likely right.)
-Voile Palendrome


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 646
Location: Kodiak, AK
Breakwater wrote:
I'm not sure if it was the NS sidecut alone, the rocker/camber combination alone, or a combination of the two, but I can tell you, sighting down the sidecut radius and rocker radius the combination of the two was all-over the place.

Take the photo of my Hovercraft I just uploaded. One could say that this sidecut radius is fair, even though it has Magne-Traction. If I were to take this similar photo with, ateast the Never-Summer Boards I've fondled with my own two hands, the sidecut would be visibly more disruptive.

I have a Jones Solution, so I am pretty familiar with the mellow mag. I also have a Never Summer SL, so I am familiar with what the combined rocker and variable sidecut looks like when you are holding the board in your hand, looking down the edge. All those funny camber/rocker lumps go away when you are standing on the board, however. When you press the deck into a carving turn for instance, the two camber sections flex and the entire board is rockered. The purpose of the cambers and the rockers is to affect where more or where less edge pressure is generated. It has little affect on how the sidecut behaves.

If you were to stand on the NS (as would be the case if you were actually riding it and not holding it up in the air) and compress the various cambers, you would end up with a flat board that has a varying radius sidecut. This is exactly what the Jones and Ventures have. They just call it different stuff, and they change the arc according to their specific recipes.

If you compressed the cambers on the NS, the sidecut shape would look no more scary to you than the Jones.

I will admit it's hard to hold some of the modern board shapes in your hand and not think "WTF? That'll never work." But then you climb aboard with an open mind and... wow.... nice. :)

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
philip.ak wrote:
Breakwater wrote:
I will admit it's hard to hold some of the modern board shapes in your hand and not think "WTF? That'll never work." But then you climb aboard with an open mind and... wow.... nice. :)


To this point, the only board I've physically ridden with all this stuff is a friend's Burton Custom, with some crazy sidecut stuff and rocker stuff, in a big-dump at Jay. It was horrendous. I hated it. So much variation in pressure points kept me guessing. It felt like a board that couldn't decide what it wanted to be.
A smooth-radius sidecut, and smooth-radius (either camber or rocker) is predictable and I can apply pressure where I want to, not where the board will let me.

I know compressing the cambers creates a smooth radius at that point, but the pressure applied to each section of the board is different, because, well, the flex pattern is not uniform... another reason why I don't like these varible sidecuts/cambers and etc.




I thoroughly enjoy my Jones Hovercraft solid, as it has a simple full camber, with big shovel-nose early tip rise rocker. Nothin' fancy, nothing complicated.
This other stuff is a rocker tip, camber underfoot, back to rocker in center, back to camber underfoot, back to rocker tail... yikes.
Surely it affects where the pressure is applied on the snow.. but I dont' like that. To my point earlier, it makes the board easier to grip in certain places, great for beginners. catchy for me.

I like to use my body weight to vary where pressure is applied forward to generate speed, backfoot to scrub. This, is how you generate or scrub speed, not by generating or stopping on a single 10mm spot on the sidecut.

I am a front-foot surfer, and front-foot snowboarder. That means I pump. I like long radius GS style riding, even on the center-mounted board. On that center-mount board I use the entire sidecut tip to tail to pump the board and create speed, not just let the slope push me. You can un-weight from a front-foot stance and weight the back foot for a mega-slash. YEW!



This, Is my mostest favorite surfing-bourd. It's a fish. Finally the snow-sports industry has taken a hint from surf and started down this path.
I can surf this board in anything from Knee-high trash, to double-overhead reeling point-break surf. With the swallow-tail (same as pow) the tail holds in big-ass waves.
Smooth radius reverse side-cut rails, with a mellow full rocker. When I walk and move my wieght around on this board, I know EXACTLY what is coming, there's no variation. If I could put bindings on this bad Larry I would. Ha. If it wasn't for pure boredom, or gluttony, this, would be the ONLY surfing-bourd I owned. Necessity wise, It's really all I NEED.

Surfboards don't have Rocker/Camber profile mixes, but do have feathered in variable sidecuts. They don't have Magne-Whatever, because that is not a SMOOTH way to travel through water. Snow.... It's Water.

Image
Image
Image


Gentemstick has recognised this, and is making some BOSS snowboards. Some, with obscene waist widths AND Traditional sidecut!
Alas, they are not split-boards, which I'm in the market for, so they are not on my list.
http://www.gentemstick.com/stick/taro.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
Breakwater wrote:
philip.ak wrote:
Breakwater wrote:
Surfboards don't have Rocker/Camber profile mixes, but do have feathered in variable sidecuts. They don't have Magne-Whatever, because that is not a SMOOTH way to travel through water. Snow.... It's Water.


I take that back, There is one surfboard with variable sidecut and rocker profiles.
All I can say about it is..... DERP.

http://www.meyerhoffer.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
I've heard back from Jones, The H.C. Split is, confirmed by the manufacturer to be the same width as the solid. 26.4

So that means options for 160ish splitters, minimum 26.2 waist and without lumps in the gravy are:

-Jones Hovercraft
-Venture Euphoria
-Voile Palendrome


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 58
I like this guy. He has lots of interesting things to say about board shapes and sidecut.

_________________
I miss Mumbles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
OCD wrote:
I like this guy. He has lots of interesting things to say about board shapes and sidecut.


:thatrocks:
Thanks Man!
What works for me, might not work for you, what works for you might not work for me....but if you know about products that I don't know about in the market I'm looking for, Well I appreciate the help!
I know what I'm after. Need help assessing the market and finding out what fits me.



If I want to draw clean lines on snow, or make a clean cut through a tomato, I use a sharp constant-radius sidecut, or a flat-blade knife. If I wanted to hack a turn or hack-up a tomato, I'd use Magne-traction, or a serrated knife.

Realistically the serrated edge (Magne-Traction) has it's uses, like cutting into boilerplate hard-snow, or using the kitchen analogy cutting a loaf of bread.

But if I wanted to make a nice slice of tomato, why on earth would I use the Magne-traction tool?
If I wanted to cut a loaf of bread, why on earth would I use the smooth knife?

The right tool for the application. Personal preference is to draw clean lines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1482
Location: Colorado
Breakwater wrote:
OCD wrote:
I like this guy. He has lots of interesting things to say about board shapes and sidecut.


:thatrocks:
Thanks Man!
What works for me, might not work for you, what works for you might not work for me....but if you know about products that I don't know about in the market I'm looking for, Well I appreciate the help!
I know what I'm after. Need help assessing the market and finding out what fits me.



If I want to draw clean lines on snow, or make a clean cut through a tomato, I use a sharp constant-radius sidecut, or a flat-blade knife. If I wanted to hack a turn or hack-up a tomato, I'd use Magne-traction, or a serrated knife.

Realistically the serrated edge (Magne-Traction) has it's uses, like cutting into boilerplate hard-snow, or using the kitchen analogy cutting a loaf of bread.

But if I wanted to make a nice slice of tomato, why on earth would I use the Magne-traction tool?
If I wanted to cut a loaf of bread, why on earth would I use the smooth knife?

The right tool for the application. Personal preference is to draw clean lines.


Hahahaahaha, Magnetraction only exists because most snowboards have waaaay too deep of a sidecut for good riders, the points of magnetration allow deep sidecut boards to behave a little bit like a board with a longer radius cut, without the negative market effects of sidecut radii over 9 meters. This is even more true of the bumps at the binding positions of the Arbor Abacus split.

all the different variable radii sidecuts, whether they be progressive, regressive, quadratic, elliptical, or some combination, are mostly a non-issue for backcountry riding where one is usually riding snow with a fair amount of penetrable depth. There are very small differences, but flex pattern and rocker profile, and sidecut depth will have much more influence on how a board feels in the backcountry than a radial vs (insert your favorite variable sidecut here) sidecut. That said, I prefer radial cuts on boards for the backcountry when I can get them: predictable, smooth, and more stable through all phases of the turn.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:01 pm
Posts: 793
Location: Colorado
Magnatraction is just like a Ginsue knife. Its a fuckin' gimmick!

Real chefs dont use serrated knives. And real snowboarder dont need magnatraction.

_________________
Talking about snowboarding is like dancing about architecture...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1482
Location: Colorado
PedroDelfuego wrote:
Magnatraction is just like a Ginsue knife. Its a fuckin' gimmick!

Real chefs dont use serrated knives. And real snowboarder dont need magnatraction.



+1 :thumpsup: one also does not see "magnetraction" on race boards, where edge grip is what it is all about.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 646
Location: Kodiak, AK
What other edge configurations do you do you gents categorize as gimmicky along with magne traction? The OP's definition of what is acceptable seems to be a moving and arbitrary target. It is also strangely being confused/conflated with rocker profile.

Here are the two Voile boards superimposed on each other. The Artisan and Palindrome. One is apparently awesome and the other is anathema.

Image

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:01 pm
Posts: 793
Location: Colorado
There was a serrated (chopped up non-continuous design) that was designed to be the be-all-end-all, it didn't last long. They have tried a metal runner down the middle (like old Burton Performers) in combination with concave bases; sucked didn't last. I will have to try to remember some others, there has been some pretty gimmicky stuff introduced.

Manufacturers need to re-invent the "product" often. If they dont, you won't need to buy new gear. Most of these new "technologies" are marketed to intermediate skiers and riders. This is wear the hardgoods market has growth potential. Getting you average person to go from 4 days a year to 20 days a year is what they want. Highend and very advanced gear is, and will always be a niche market. How many people on this forum spent $600-$800 on boots? Barrows and maybe 20 other guys. Everyone else rides middle of the road $200-$300 price point boots. This is where the R&D/Marketing budget money has to goes.

I am beginning to feel that rocker is more of a intermediate rider technology/gimmick. I think that sufficient float can be achieved with good taper, flex and nose profile. This would get you the float you want, but not at the loss of effective edge length and contact. I have always selected boards with lots of effective edge, and my new rocker board seem strange at high speeds. I think with rocker boards you should actually size up, rather than size down. Rocker seems great at low speed on powder, but at high speeds your life depends on you effective edge and edge hold (literally!).

_________________
Talking about snowboarding is like dancing about architecture...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1482
Location: Colorado
This discussion could morph into something really interesting.

pedro: I must say I really, really like rocker. But, it is important to realize that just making a board rockered does have the potential to reduce stability if rocker is not included into the design process in a wholistic way. That is, the flex profile of a board needs to be changed to accommodate rocker and still allow for stability at speed and edge hold in steep icy spots. Because rocker is (sort of) new, it takes manufacturers a few iterations to find the new sweet spots for flexpattern and sidecut radii to take full advantage of rocker profiles. Additionally, there are also many new rocker profiles to try. Honestly, I do not find float is the reason I like rocker, rocker works for me because it makes the board ride more freely. When done right, rocker allows for many more types of truns to be done quickly and easily, while not affecting the boards ability to really rail, arc, and carve at high speeds. With a well designed rocker board, one can get more maneuverability and go to a longer board, while maintaining high stability.

I do not, at all, consider rocker profiles a gimmick, and I do not ever see going back to a traditional camber board. I do think, as rocker profiles, flex patterns, and sidecuts evolve, we will see better and better boards, as these things get more dialed in to each other. For sure, a board with rocker needs to be a little stiffer to achieve the stability of the same board with camber (same shape, sidecut). My Venture Storm was my first rocker board, I was concerned that there might not be enough enough edge hold through the tail for steeps; then I rode the Notchtop Spire Couloir with it, and found it to be the best board I had ever ridden for really steep descents. Clearly, at least for me, Venture had dialed in the flex to suit the rocker profile.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 169 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  








Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group