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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
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Can't believe I agree with Russ on this one. Lower half body mechanics aren't working for me. Robotic. It's clearly working for Joey. That's what matters.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me why anyone would wanna ride a snowboard in ski boots. I suppose it could be slightly more efficient on the uphill, but I'll still get there. Not knocking it, it just ain't for me, and trying to use this video to change that would be like using Deeper/Further to change someone's mind about hardboots. But if someone hooks me up with a plane ticket and a camera guy, I'd gladly rip the piss outta that terrain just to show you hardbooters what's up.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
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Location: New Castle, Colorado
I really like Joey's passion for Splitboarding and his mellow attitude for enjoying life.

So I tried a pair of Burton Driver X's last week. For me; the Driver X's rode about the same as my stock Stock F1's. In other word's my F1's and Bomber Sidewinder Bindings were just as surfy as the Driver X boots.

For me I am sticking with the F1 boots and selling the Burton Driver X boots.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Location: British Columbia
I like the vids, hes ripping pretty good :D I don't really get the comments on his style, looks pretty smooth.

And no POV so he gets extra points for that :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:07 am 
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Location: Salzburg / Austria
fustercluck wrote:
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me why anyone would wanna ride a snowboard in ski boots.
Easier to kick steps on steeps, when snowboard is on your back,
Feet don't hurt when crampons are attached to them for many hours, as sole is 100% stiff,
Going up is more efficient (lighter feet, more shaft movement),
Easier traverses (more feel/control of side edge),
Crampons faster to be put on,
Fastening of binding is quicker.

I'm still on softboots (Flow The One), but eager to demo AT boots soon. Unfortunately, TLT5s are too narrow for my forefoot. However, if I can't get the same board feel as with softboots, I won't convert.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1477
Location: Colorado
Add to the list of HB advantages:

lighter system weight, much lighter touring weight on the foot, no more broken straps, system redundency: if a binding breaks, one still has the Dynafit touring toe pieces and can still exit from deep in the backcountry. Warmer (in many, but not all, cases). More comfortable (with proper boot fitting). Much easier on/off (this might seem trivial, but anyone who basecamps for lines can appreciate this advantage).

As to Russ' comments on turning by using the hips and/or upper body-Joey does not ride that way, and neither do I, but I know exactly what he is talking about. If one has a hard boot which is too stiff, it will not allow the foot/ankle articulation necessary for good snowboarding performance. I have felt this many times (with too stiff un-modified hard boots), one turns into a totally awkward, stiff, frankenstein rider with a set up like this. I initiate turns using my feet/ankles when appropriate with my TLT5s using exactly the same techniques I used with my Driver Xs-these boots flex the same, and my stance is the same (Joey rides duck BTW), in fact, my TLT5s are actually a little softer than my Driver Xs of a few seasons ago.

The (usually modified) lightweight AT boots riders are using now are much, much softer than what one normally thinks of as "ski boots", if you have not tried a (appropriately modded) TLT5, Scarpa F1 or Rush, you really do not know anything about these boots and how they flex. Joey is riding a (modded) TLT5 in this video.

I am not interested in getting everyone to switch to a hard boot system, please, ride whatever you want! My only concern is that people understand (and overcome their biases) that there is no compromise in riding performance with a properly sorted HB set up (modded for appropriate flex and well fitted boot).

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:32 am 
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Location: Altadena SoCal
FloImSchnee wrote:
I'm still on softboots (Flow The One), but eager to demo AT boots soon. Unfortunately, TLT5s are too narrow for my forefoot.

Check out Dynafit's ONE boot, similar to TLT5 but wider for guys like us.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:10 pm 
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While I think this thread is kind of silly, I guess I can see the merit of trying to convert more splitters. Look at Keffler who was convinced and that same year developed his own binding. More hardbooters=more product development. But some folks will probably never convert. So repeating the same arguments is silly. On the TLT 5 note, my feet felt like a million bucks after my longer tour the other day. Something I had never experienced after extensive tours with Driver Xs and Deelux Sparks. My toes stayed noticeably warmer throughtout the day as well, though I am prone to cold toes due to poor circulation.

Russman, fustercluck, et al. Please feel free to post up videos of yourselves shredding so we can critique your style. Oh wait, I dont give a fuck! :) Right now im diggin on both my setups. Time will tell if I switch permanently. For big days and mountaineering its a no-brainer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:37 pm
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Location: in between
i may have to switch over to HBs cause i'm getting old and tired of bending down to strap in. :D

cool video and a rippin' rider


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Location: reiter hills
yeah, but what kind of pumps do you bitchs wear to the mall? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Location: Colorado
HFT wrote:

"Russman, fustercluck, et al. Please feel free to post up videos of yourselves shredding so we can critique your style. Oh wait, I dont give a fuck! "

LOL… Yup, development only happens if people are willing to consider the possibility. IMO, snowboard development has been held back by closed minded people, both for boots and bindings, and board designs. It could be argued quite successfully that ski design has been much more innovative over the last five years than snowboard design, which with a very few exceptions has been totally stagnant (rocker developments are good, but often use the simplistic approach of just adding rocker to existing designs, and not actually optimizing the entire design to work with the new profile). Snowboarders are way to quick to criticize a new design (unless it is endorsed by their favorite pro hero) with which they actually have no experience.
Skiers learned to get out of their tiny box by the influence of snowboarding, and now snowboarding seems to be stuck in a little box of its own...

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http://protectourwinters.org/
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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:42 am
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Location: California
So if I don't want to buy a $600 boot to cut on to see if I like it I'm close minded? Maybe I'd be willing to give it a shot if I had super serious mtneering goals or some sort of foot issue. I'm having so much fun in my toy boots that I can find online for less than $200, I just dont see the point. Plus I'm not a good tinkerer, I'd surely thrash the boots while moding them.

I do predict that there will be some sort of God send innovation in splitboarding in the next couple of years. I've seen so much innovation since I started splitting 9 yrs ago with new stuff coming being daylighted all the time. I usually agree with you, Barrows, but not on the lack of innovation. But then again I'm not that into board design so your prolly right on that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:28 am 
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Ecobrad wrote:
So if I don't want to buy a $600 boot to cut on to see if I like it I'm close minded? Maybe I'd be willing to give it a shot if I had super serious mtneering goals or some sort of foot issue. I'm having so much fun in my toy boots that I can find online for less than $200, I just dont see the point. Plus I'm not a good tinkerer, I'd surely thrash the boots while moding them.

I do predict that there will be some sort of God send innovation in splitboarding in the next couple of years. I've seen so much innovation since I started splitting 9 yrs ago with new stuff coming being daylighted all the time. I usually agree with you, Barrows, but not on the lack of innovation. But then again I'm not that into board design so your prolly right on that one.


ECO: No (and sorry if it it seemed that way), I am not suggesting that one needs to try a HB system to be open minded. What I am trying to get across is that the (very vocal) snowboarders who diss HB systems (without ever trying a proper set up), and make claims that these systems cannot ride "properly" are the ones being closed minded. It is these kind of attitudes which hamper innovation, as these attitudes leave manufacturers feeling afraid of spending money on R&D of better systems, and that the fashion (vs performance) oriented snowboard market will reject new ideas without actually trying them.
I agree that in splitboarding there is innovation in bindings, but not in boots (there is still no soft boot with a walk mode which allows reasonable touring flex), or much in boards. Note that the Volant "Spatula" ski was introduced what, 15 years ago or so... It has taken until the last few years for snowboarders to have a similar reverse/reverse design for pow riding. For the most part we are still seeing boards designed for intermediate level freestyle riders at the resort being made into splits. Yes, there are some exceptions: furberg (Daniel had to quit his sponsor and start his own company to get his designs built as his sponsor was unwilling to do it) and Chimera (which has some very innovative protos floating about), and Venture's pow rider the reverse/reverse Euphoria, but if you look at the ski companies, every single one of them has innovative, purpose designed, backcountry skis with tapered tips and tails, innovative rocker profiles, and long radius or no almost no sidecut designs. Have you seen anything from a snowboard company to even come close to the innovation apparent in DPS' "Spoon" pow ski, with its convex base at the tip, highly tapered tip and tail, and almost zero sidecut?

As to costs, you get what you pay for. I see plenty of folks shelling out for $800 Karakoram SL set ups, and BTW: for me, soft boots last one season, at which point they get too soft and broken down to use. A HB will last me 3 seasons of hard use, so the intial cost of entry will be high, the cost of use is quite comparable.

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http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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