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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:39 pm 
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I have no idea! My splitboard is roughly a 159, perhaps a little shorter... and my resort board is a 169.

That said, I wouldn't mind having a second split that's a little less of a powder snob than what I have now.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
A better paying job is the answer! :(


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:45 pm 
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powslash wrote:
Correct. Deep snow of any density will cause wallowing. A long board can help this. A quiver is the answer.



I thought splitboarding was the answer :(


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:55 am 
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Quote:
Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?


because we have small dicks? :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:33 am 
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Location: Udapimp, Idaho
barrows wrote:
Lets look at float specifically: This is actually much more complex than most seem to realize. First, there are really a couple of things people are referring to when the say: "float".

Real float, is when the entire board is near the surface of the snow, basically planing out, or very near to planing out. When a board is near the surface like this, it is very, very easy to turn quickly, as the rider can very freely pivot the board at will, even if it is quite long, as both the nose AND tail of the board are near the surface, and neither has to overcome much pressure to move laterally through the snow (during a sliding turn, or pivot).

How much real float a board has is almost entirely determined by the surface area of the board. The longer, and or wider a board is, the more float. A board with more surface area will ride closer to the surface of the snow, and be easier to turn quickly, at a given speed. Note, this also means that in powder snow conditions, a bigger board (more surface area) will actually be easier to turn (closer to the surface) at a slower speed.

Now, the "other" kind of float which some people seem to be talking about: this is really more about the board's tip being up, with the board riding with a tip up, tail down attitude. This is the way many of the high taper/big setback designs (fish, etc) work. This is really not "float" in the strictest sense of the word (planing) but is more about ploughing. These boards indeed keep the tip up, even at relatively low speeds, and they can also be turned fairly quickly, often by pivoting off of the tail, and they are generally able to keep the tip up, and stop the dreaded tip dive in deep snow, even at low speeds. But these boards lose stability at higher speeds due to their general lack of overall length, and they do not allow as many turn styles as easily as a larger shape which is riding closer to the surface in the tail of the board (the ability to smear the tail is diminished).

Then consider rocker. Rocker does not really make a board float better, float comes almost entirely from surface area. But, tip rocker does help a board to rise up and start planing a little sooner, so it makes it easier to ride in deep pow, especially when speeds are slow. Now, combine tip and tail rocker with a tapered tip and tail design (see furberg for an understanding of this shape) and the float is improved drastically during turns, as the pressure at the edge of the board is distributed over a longer section of the board, reducing the tendency of the board to knife into the snow (and dive) when put on edge, especially at lower speeds. For pow, the shape of the furberg is for me, a revelation in terms of float, and ease of ride, and the ability to make the most different kinds of turns while staying near the surface of the snow, at even lower speeds.


what he said^^^. I was going to write a similar blog response before I read this, agree 110%, tanker motto "there's no replacement for displacement"

As for dense PNW snow the deeper you sink into it the harder it is to turn or even move forward.
I literally lived at Alpental for several yrs back in the day and when it's knee deep mank, "porposing" might get you there, but planing is where the fun is.
Very steep terrain facilitates this by getting the tip out of the surface which is the whole idea behind rocker, setback and fish/taper/swallow shapes
The only thing I would add is how much tip length, taper and height can change the way an otherwise identical board rides in deep.
A 178cm 4807 will feel like a 165 because 12cm of that length is pointy boat nose, which in contrast still doesn't plane as well as my 20yr old 180+ grocer w/ full width but very long and tall tip/tail. The long & tall tips work like rocker in deep snow, even though it has a similar groomer feel & effective edge as my 169. This allows me to stick switch landings in 2' of fresh unlike a swallow tail or a shorter rockered shape(I've ridden skate bannanas in deep and there's no comparison).

Arguing over 5cm/2in is ridiculous, you can cut that much length off the curve of the tail and never feel a difference, and using only height(leverage), weight(board flex) to determine board length is like having a fantasy football team and using only seahawk players.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Posts: 470
Location: New Castle, Colorado
So how does this discussion on riding a slightly longer splitboard translates for average Women riders, about 5’ 3-4″ with a 120 - 130 lbs?

For example: Prior Brandywine specs are:

See http://www.priorsnow.com/brandywine

Would up-sizing board length for a women benefit from a longer board? Or would the additional weight of the board negate the benefits of a longer board? In other words can a smaller rider male riders (for example Jeremy Jones (JJ) Height: 5'8″ Weight: 150 pounds) and women riders excel with just a one splitboard quiver in all conditions?

[I am 5' 10" , 190 lbs)

Last year, I posted a thread asking to compare a "Prior Fissile vs. Jones Hovercraft???"see http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13309&hilit=fissile

The Fissle represents itself as long board posing as a short board:
Quote:
The Fissile split, brand new for Winter 2012, is truly a unique offering. It has a directional, powder profiled nose that is longer than anything else in the Prior lineup; it also comes with the shortest radius sidecut of any board we make. This crazy combination has an early rise tip for enhanced powder float and a firm chassis underfoot for superior edge hold and stability. Shift your weight to the front foot and straightline with speed or shift back and turn on a dime. It’s crazy good!




The Hovercraft represents itself as a short board posing as a long board:

Quote:
Packing the volume of an old-school long board into a nimble all-mountain charger, the Hovercraft is a phenomenon that shatters the stereotypes of your average “pow” board. Blower, crud or crust are no match for the Hovercraft as it floats through it all without sacrificing maneuverability in mixed conditions.




Powslash replied
Quote:
Can a comparison be made? Well... Are you a big dude wearing a pack and riding snow deeper than say 10"? Then you want the fissile. Are you a smaller dude riding snow that isn't super deep? The Hovercraft is fun in those conditions.

The Fissile is what it says it is. The person who wrote the blurb for the Hovercraft is bad at math. The hovercraft just isn't getting it done when the snow gets super deep. It is in fact a short board.


What is interesting to me is watching JJ slay some bottomless powder on Donner Pass riding a 156 Hovercraft in the "Deeper".

So is there a sweet spot for small riders and women? And can they excel in deep condition with just one board (board manufacture's recommended board size)?

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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:31 am 
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The Hovercraft can be ridden about 6 cm shorter than your regular board size and provide the same float due to the increased surface area from the width of the board, as mentioned. The other nice thing about the Hovercraft is that is is much more versatile than your average pow shape. It has a stiffer tail and more torsional stability than most, allowing it to be used in more hardpack situations. I've never been a big fan of powder shapes, but the time that I have spent on the hovercraft has given me the impression that I could enjoy much more than just deep pow on the board.

The other nice thing about these boards is the weight savings. When going on longer, all day or multi day tours, where weight is a concern, having a smaller board under your feet can be an advantage. A board like the hovercraft, which performs like a longer board when it needs to, can offer noticeable weight savings. Once again, from my experience on this board, I would have no reservations taking it further off the radar into bigger lines with less than optimal snowpack.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Powder_Rider wrote:
What is interesting to me is watching JJ slay some bottomless powder on Donner Pass riding a 156 Hovercraft in the "Deeper".
If I recall, he is riding nose up in a wheelie most of the time, not plane-ing out. But my memory is getting foggy these days, so apologies if I'm talking out my ass. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Snurfer wrote:
Powder_Rider wrote:
What is interesting to me is watching JJ slay some bottomless powder on Donner Pass riding a 156 Hovercraft in the "Deeper".
If I recall, he is riding nose up in a wheelie most of the time, not plane-ing out. But my memory is getting foggy these days, so apologies if I'm talking out my ass. :?



Thank you for this comment. At least some folks get it…

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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Location: Cupertino, CA
barrows wrote:
Snurfer wrote:
Powder_Rider wrote:
What is interesting to me is watching JJ slay some bottomless powder on Donner Pass riding a 156 Hovercraft in the "Deeper".
If I recall, he is riding nose up in a wheelie most of the time, not plane-ing out. But my memory is getting foggy these days, so apologies if I'm talking out my ass. :?



Thank you for this comment. At least some folks get it…


Agreed, and why I love the 160cm Hover so much. It is minimally different in width, but the 4cm in length helps it plane much better IMO than the 156cm.

shredgnar wrote:
It has a stiffer tail and more torsional stability than most, allowing it to be used in more hardpack situations. The hovercraft has given me the impression that I could enjoy much more than just deep pow on the board.Once again, from my experience on this board, I would have no reservations taking it further off the radar into bigger lines with less than optimal snowpack.


Agree, the stiff tail is awesome and helps correct you when thrown into the back seat and the 9.5m sidecut is right in my sweet spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
:twocents:
just a style thing:
If you are riding steep technical terrain like the boys in the media and throwing your board completely sideways to check speed most of the way down, you don't need or want a lot of stiff surface area under foot, same for landing big airs. You need a small flexible board that will absorb a lot of shocks.

If you are not riding spines and imitating a flying squirrel, and like throwing your board sideways here and there, length is still unnecessary. (Aren't you guys getting tired of all that pow in your face when you do speed check turns?) If you are riding faster and banking rounder, less skidded turns, length and area, (like another 25cm or extra 2cm in width) brings you so much faster out of each turn and redirects you more, rather than throw the snow out of the way as you smear into a straighter line.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Jackson Hole
5'8 ~150lbs

161 Jones Solution Split

161.5 Lib Tech TRice solid

I have not been riding for very long but so far I seem to have found that I prefer a board around 160-161; a good blend of stability and maneuverability.

I have ridden a Hovercraft (156) a handful of times, and for slow speed powder (trees etc) I found it to be pretty fucking tits. I never got a chance to try it in any hardpack conditions, or anywhere that I was really flying down a wide open field, so I can't comment on how it might ride in those conditions.

Also I have found that the camrock on my solution makes it more versatile and easier to ride.

My libtech, with the rocker in the middle and camber underfoot, requires that I put alot of weight in the backseat until I really get up to speed. The libtech has more surface area than my solution (albeit marginally) but the added rocker on the solution makes a far bigger difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do splitboarders ride such long boards?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Posts: 3
I upsized on my splitboard mainly because of the theory that I'd want more coverage when skinning.

I don't have a lot of regret in my life, but I think maybe I regret that specific decision. The board has been a challenge to ride in anything other than knee/waist/bottomless pow-pow.

It's a Prior Khyber which has a nice pow friendly tapered tail, pow friendly rocker, also a stiff board.... getting it longer than what I ride inbounds was overkill. It's already a powder machine!

I'm about 125lbs and 5'4... the 156cm Khyber is total overkill for little ol' novice rider me. (spoiler alert: one more stance change to see if I can improve things and then it'll be posted for sale)


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