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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Location: Kodiak, AK
'Glide' is a relative thing. A skin with good glide is hardly different from a skin with bad glide when you compare both of those to a ski with no skin at all. In other words, no skins truly glide well- some are just a little better than others. We are talking about sliding forward an extra 2" or 4" on each stride when skinning across a flat, firm snowfield on a skin with really good glide vs a slow skin. The difference in each step is small, but over the course of a long, relatively flat tour it can add up to real calories saved.

But note that a 'good' gliding skin basically does not help when you are climbing. Most of what you are overcoming when going uphill is gravity, not mechanical friction. The difference between good and bad glide when climbing is small.

Glide is more important when.... um, gliding. When you are sliding down a hill on your skins, good glide can make the difference between having to skin downhill and getting to ski.

I have not noticed much difference in glide from waxing skins or treating them with waterproofing products. The lack of glide seems to be more a factor of the mechanical nature of the plush (how stiff the hairs are, the hair material [mohair vs nylon], and how much the hairs stick down) rather than the chemical nature of the plush. Waxing primarily prevents snow sticking to the skin. If you feel like your skins are slow, just accept it and get used to them. You will get more benefit from good, efficient skinning technique than you will from waxing in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:51 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Calgary, AB
Thanks for the info!

Yea, mine feel like snow shoes climbing, but when I first started I took some "cross country" style steps and failed miserably. haha. Glide is a term that should be used lightly.

I haven't had a chance to "ski" while skined up, but I imagine that will be interesting....

I need to work on technique, but I mostly just resorted to walking pretty much and not using any of the glide feature. Snow was fresh and lightly packed from other skiners. It was a short distance before the vert started.

I might go ahead and apply this Nikwax Proof. It's the same one labeled as Black Diamond. My options were limited but I"ve been happy with Nikwax products in the past for clothing so figured I'd give it a go. Sounds like most of the benefits are to prevent water absorbtion and therefore icing over on certian snow and multiple trips up the mountain.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 124
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Phillip.AK

Between this and your one foot spark/ one foot karakoram test, you are the review guru. :thumpsup: :headbang: Thanks!

My BDs are still holding up OK after 1 full year (as they f&^kin should!) but I will look at the G3s next time.

Get on a nasty, icy traverse and tell me you want good "glide" over good grip...


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:32 am
Posts: 183
Location: Northern NM
Method wrote:
Phillip.AK

Between this and your one foot spark/ one foot karakoram test, you are the review guru. :thumpsup: :headbang: Thanks!

My BDs are still holding up OK after 1 full year (as they f&^kin should!) but I will look at the G3s next time.

Get on a nasty, icy traverse and tell me you want good "glide" over good grip...



Amen, brother!

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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 604
Location: Rainier Beach
Did about 12 miles on the high tractions last weekend in one long day, and they glide fine. Perhaps not quite as much as BDs, but I would also rather have the grip for when I need it on the up, and especially for traverses.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:24 pm
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Location: Salzburg / Austria
So, you would say that the G3 High Traction skins glide even worse than the - in this respect - terrible Voilé/BD-Skins?
(however, the Voilé's grip is amazing, which is why I still like them a lot)

Still, to provide a meaningful comparison one needs to compare them left/right at the same time, I assume.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1
Any Vermonters out there?

I just read through this thread and lots of helpful information for a newbie like me. I have never skinned before, and I want to make sure I get a good product the first time around. I understand the glide vs. traction tradeoff, and I am looking for any advice/ recommendations for Vermont conditions and terrain. Anyone out there used G3 Alpinist or High Traction skins in VT and can give a newbie some advice on which ones work best here?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:42 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Republic of Vermont
These will work great in VT.

We are mostly climbing, rather than skinning hut to hut type tours, so traction is worth it.

Also why boards like the spliff are working so well- more like ascent skis.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:37 pm
Posts: 139
Location: East of the Cascades, Wa
Just thought I would chime in briefly with my brief expeience with the G3's. I wasn't actually on them so take this with that in mind. We sell the spark r&d versions in the shop and they are an awesome package for the price, the fit and finish is quite nice. Right now I'm debating on the voile's or the spark skins for this season.

For reference, I am on 3 season old climbing skin direct skins which have survived 2 looong dirty springs, countless mistreatments, being left in the sun, etc etc.

My CSD skins by far out glide the g3's and for that matter voiles as well. On a long tour I can get out of view of friends on voiles, so if you say glide means nothing, it is only for the type of touring that you do. For many others it makes a difference when shopping. You will sacrifice long traverse speeds for grip, but whether that is an issue is up to each individual.

The biggest issue is that we expeienced warming weather on this particular tour, I have had my CSD skins topo before, but only a handfull of times. I had glopping happen right under foot, where as my friend on his g3's had it the entire length of the skin, and also much sooner than me. This was a big red flag for me, I was sold on them until I witnessed that happen.

Anyone in the pnw have any input on the glopping issue? His skins were brand new, and it was the first putting with them. I put my skins in my coat for the ride down and thy were fine, he continued to have issues on our skin out, although I will note he did not out his in his coat to warm up.

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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:03 pm
Posts: 51
used my new G3 skins at weekend in relatively warm +4oC conditions.
fine on the up
lack of glide compared to my previous mohair CT40 Colltex but not an issue.
re-applying the skin for round 2 was an issue- just not sticky when moist.
maybe in the coat option is essential- something that i did not do with the CT40.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:24 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Salzburg / Austria
B-P wrote:
I had glopping happen right under foot, where as my friend on his g3's had it the entire length of the skin, and also much sooner than me. This was a big red flag for me, I was sold on them until I witnessed that happen.

Anyone in the pnw have any input on the glopping issue?
Just to make sure as I'm not a native speaker: glopping means the accumulation of snow on the skins' fur, right?

Personally I wouldn't choose any skin over another due to glopping. When glopping happens, it can easily be resolved by using a piece of wax and rub it over the skins' fur. (I do it twice from tail to nose and once from nose to tail)

On days prone to glopping - i.e. starting at the bottom at temperatures above freezing level, getting colder when gaining height - I'll already put some wax on the skins at the parking lot to avoid any issues.


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm
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Location: Rainier Beach
B-P wrote:
My CSD skins by far out glide the g3's and for that matter voiles as well. On a long tour I can get out of view of friends on voiles, so if you say glide means nothing, it is only for the type of touring that you do.


I don't anyone would say glide means nothing, however I think for 99% of the routes we do, grip matters way more than glide. Long approaches with perfectly groomed access roads in the PNW are few and far between, while exposed icy traverses seem to be the norm.

B-P wrote:
Anyone in the pnw have any input on the glopping issue?


I was out yesterday with some friends, one had mohair G3s, I had the High Tractions, and the other guy had BDs. All of our skins glopped up like crazy by end of day, with the glue more or less failing at about 25 degrees farenheit. On all of our skins. Wet plus cold equals unhappy skins. Some people swear by glob stopper, and I've tried a Nikwax product that works ok. Mostly use it in the spring.

Anyone tried the new geckos who can speak to their tendency to glop up?

On a slightly related note, if your'e a big fan of 'getting out of view of your friends' I highly suggest trying hard boots with Dynafit toe pieces. I felt like I was going twice as fast as normal, and with half the energy. I think this will give far more immediate benefit than which skins you choose, which are always a compromise... my :twocents:


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 Post subject: Re: G3 high traction skins -- review
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:09 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Colorado
Jefe009 wrote:
B-P wrote:


On a slightly related note, if your'e a big fan of 'getting out of view of your friends' I highly suggest trying hard boots with Dynafit toe pieces. I felt like I was going twice as fast as normal, and with half the energy. I think this will give far more immediate benefit than which skins you choose, which are always a compromise... my :twocents:


+1 on this. I know for some, hardboots are a non-starter, but the improvement when touring is really noticeable.

I just picked up some Geckos. As a comparison, I have several seasons on Climbing Skins Direct skins which have worked pretty good. I doubt the glopping issue will be any different, ie still a problem, but we will see.


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