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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:54 am 
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Location: Colorado
The binding launch party was a good humble start! Just a hand full of people came by, but the feedback was really good. Looks like I'm a lot closer than I thought. I was able to make a small adjustment and nearly all, if not all, of the "play" was taken out so the bindings lock down tight and don't move!

I'd like to keep this thread going for general questions about the bindings, but I'm going to start a new thread for a "group order" for the first production run of these. Since us hardbooters for splitboarding are such a small group, I'll need help spreading the word in order to get enough people for a first run of bindings. If you know someone who might like a pair, please point them this way.

Pre-Order info here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13929

Here's to a good season and new beginnings :drinks: Cheers everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Just wanted to add some thoughts here on these bindings, and how much work Keffler has put into them. He started discussing various ideas with me at the end of the 2011 season, and by the middle of the 2012 season he was riding his first prototype. The very first day out on the first proto was a success, with no issues, and smooth transitions for the new system-this initial result is a really good testament to the reliability and performance of his initial design. Keffler continued to ride the first proto for the remainder of last season, with no problems, despite the binding being the very first proto he had made. Over the course of the spring and summer he started to develop the design further, resulting in big improvements in strength, and making the binding fully adjustable. I continued to provide him with feedback and my opinion, but all the design and fabrication work are entirely his own. Getting these bindings to this point required countless hours of drawing, thinking, building models, and finally expensive working prototypes. I doubt that Keffler will ever get financially rewarded appropriate with the amount of development time which has been spent, as this project has clearly been pursued to produce the best binding possible, without a thought given to making money, or even coming close to recouping expenses
At this point I cannot fully express how impressed I am with the Phantom binding at this point in its development. It offers a number of significant advantages, not the least of which is that it allows fine stance width and setback adjustment, and fully independent adjustment of stance angles to exactly what the rider prefers. This adjustment ability is a huge advance over the Voile pucks, and any other commercial splitboard binding system of which I am aware. Now we can dial in the exact width and setback of our stance, and then, the perfect angle as well from +30 degrees to -30 degrees. No more compromising. The boot sole to board distance is now virtually the same as with a pair of Sparks or Karakorams and soft boots; combined with the thin sole of the TLT5 the hardboot rider will have unprecedented board feel, removing the final compromise of a hard boot system. Additionally, John feels that the additional surface area contact of the binding to board surface results in better, more precise, board response-I have not ridden the system yet, so I cannot say the he is right, but I suspect that he is.
I am so psyched to ride the Phantom bindings this coming season!

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Who are these shady fellows and what's with the NASA shirt?

Image

Thanks for the kind words Barrows. I really do owe a lot of design features to him. I tried to push for the simplest ways to do something and he pushed me to put in the most adjustablity I could. Stoked :drinks:


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:24 am 
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Location: Colorado
Just so there are no surprises. The detent pins stick up a little higher than the heel and toe blocks. Here is a picture of the bottom of my boot after a season. You can see how the top of the pin boogered up the rubber sole just a bit. Personally, I'm ok with this, but some may not.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:21 am 
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Location: Denver
Now I just need some snow!

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Phantom Bindings
Furberg Split 167
Furberg Freeride Split 164


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:33 am 
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Location: New Castle, Colorado
Sweet! :clap:

What's the total weight of the Phantom binding with an interface and screws, compared to the total weight of the Burton Race-Plate modified Voile Slider track, pucks and screws?

What is the additional price for just the interface (an extra set or 2 of plates to attach the bidders for another board)?

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Ride the Pow!
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Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:40 am 
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Quote:
Just so there are no surprises. The detent pins stick up a little higher than the heel and toe blocks. Here is a picture of the bottom of my boot after a season. You can see how the top of the pin boogered up the rubber sole just a bit. Personally, I'm ok with this, but some may not.


Could a plastic shim be add to the top of the detent pin, so as not to gouge the boots?

How do you secure the detent pins, so as not to lose them?

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Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:55 am 
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Location: Colorado
Powder_Rider wrote:
Quote:
Just so there are no surprises. The detent pins stick up a little higher than the heel and toe blocks. Here is a picture of the bottom of my boot after a season. You can see how the top of the pin boogered up the rubber sole just a bit. Personally, I'm ok with this, but some may not.


Could a plastic shim be add to the top of the detent pin, so as not to gouge the boots?

How do you secure the detent pins, so as not to lose them?


The detent pin is not a loose part. It is spring loaded and threads into the tab. I'll be getting some better videos posted soon, but swamped getting bindings built and shipped.

If you are really worried about the top of the detent pin boogering up the bottom of you boot, you could always put flat 1/8 thick plastic under each bail block. This should put the detent pin top below the sole. Personally, I like having my foot as close to the board top as possible and not worried about the boot. The pin top is really small.

I'll post up some weight totals later.

Don't have any prices on just the interface parts yet. Need to see how the actuals come in when this first build is all said and done. I don't like to cut corners and put quality over cost but this you know what this means. Not going to be the cheapest binding on the market, but hopefully one of the best for fit, materials, and craftsmanship.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:46 pm 
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My feelings, after picking up my pair of Phantoms. I think Keffler had the following priorities for the Phantom bindings, in order of importance:
1. Best performance possible, better than any other plate binding for splitboards available.
2. Absolute reliability in the field.
3. Lightweight

I think that design and build considerations were weighed in the above order, and compromises were not made, for example, if there was a decision to be made regarding weight vs. reliability, or weight vs. performance, reliability and performance won out. This means the bindings system is a little heavier (emphasis on little) than a tuned, DIY, RacePlate/Voile slider set up. But the performance is going to eclipse that set up by far. The boot is much closer to the board surface, the binding supports a much more secure board interface, and the whole boot to board interface is much more responsive than anything which relies on the (weak and flexible plastic) Voile pucks and slider plate. As far as reliability goes, the critical components of the Phantom set up are made from the strongest and most resilient (and most expensive) aluminum alloy available, 7075-T6. Ask Voile what the slider plate is made from…
For the first production generation of Phantom Bindings, Keffler has erred on the side of making them strong, rather than risking failure by trying to achieve the lightest weight possible. That said, the system is far from heavy, and will easily weigh less than any soft boot set up when paired with TLT5 boots.
Future generations may indeed shed a little weight, but not without some serious testing: no one wants a binding which has even the slightest chance of failure when making turns above a death fall.

Even though I have seen the development of this binding system first hand during its entire development, I am still very impressed by the final product. The Phantom Binding System is a serious tool, for serious riders, which makes other bindings look like toys.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Awesome---I can't wait to give these a whirl with my new TLT5s!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Keffler and Barrows appreciate your comments: I definitely interested in getting two pairs of the Phantoms bindings late in the spring (March 2013) or Next year. Going to have to save up for these! Currently I have a couple of Race Plates to mod on Voile tracks and a pair of Sidewinders. Hence curious about the weight difference between the bindings.

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Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:59 pm 
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I remember weighing my Race Plates on sliders, pins, pucks, and mounting screws when John first quoted target weights and the difference was really small (can't remember which way, but they weren't significantly heavier or lighter). For me, getting much lower to the board was more important. I'll be sure to weigh mine when they come in though, I'm nerdy like that.

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Various Chimera prototypes
TLT5/Dynafit/Phantom
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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
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Location: New Castle, Colorado
For me I am interested in the weight more because I have the Sidewinders. I got to come up with a good up sale to my wife to justify new bindings for the both of us.


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