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 Post subject: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:32 am
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Location: Northern NM
So I just got my first turns of the season on my brand new Zephyr and Spark bindings. We went up to Wolf Creek Pass and did a few nice powder turns off the Lobo overlook. The next day I skinned up the ski area to get a feel for the board on firmer snow.

So I have a couple of questions: I'm wondering about heel and toe drag, and having my bindings set up right for skinning. A couple of years back I got all paranoid about toe drag on my solid board so I set the bindings way way back towards the heel side. My ankles, especially my front foot, ended up hurting every day I rode, especially on firm snow. I think this is because I couldn't really weight my toe side edge very well, my feet were too far behind the board's edge.

So, for this season I moved my bindings closer to the toe edge, on both my solid and split. This weekend riding the split I felt fine and had no trouble weighting either edge and didn't feel any toe/heel drag. Only problem is, when skinning my toes kept smashing into the topsheet. This wasn't on very steep skin tracks either.
Should I get touring bracket risers, anyone use them? I could extend the heel cup a little bit more too I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:11 am 
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Location: Kodiak, AK
Extend the heel cups to move your boot back in the binding. That will fix the touring issue. You should not have your boot's toe area contact the topsheet unless you are kneeling down on the board when touring (for instance to install a Mr Chomps crampon, etc). Then readjust your pucks to make sure the boot is centered over the board so you get neither toe nor heel drag when riding.

Note that the pucks have an 'A' and 'B' orientation for the center disc. This makes a pretty big difference in where the binding ends up on the board. Put the puck with the slotted holes that run parallel to the edge of the board on the heel side. For bigger boots, try having the 'A' arrow pointing towards the heel edge on that the heel-side puck. The orientation of the toe-side puck (which will have the slotted holes perpendicular to the board's edges) is less important. Flip it around as needed to achieve the position that the heel-side puck dictates.

Play with it. It can take a fair bit of experimentation and flipping of pucks to get the binding position dialed.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:47 am 
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As a guy with big feet and having always ridden duck foot because of it, if you have dialed in your stance for a great comfortable ride then i would embrace some risers. You will end up with better edge control when skinning and any downhill you made do with the board in half.

Though one aspect that may prove troublesome are crampons, with the added rise will you have less bite or control?

Other than that a set of risers would be the route. Comfortable ride with no toe or heel drag is way more important than toe-topsheet contact and now Voile is selling these risers too.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:23 pm
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Location: Estes Park
Got a pair of the touring risers on my DIY split. Worth the money for sure! I noticed much better edge control and improved touring. You will be happy with them!


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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:32 am
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Location: Northern NM
Chef_Ben wrote:
Though one aspect that may prove troublesome are crampons, with the added rise will you have less bite or control?


I was wondering this as well, with the risers can you still use ski crampons and get enough grip?


Thanks guys, I think I'll do both: extend the heel cup and get the risers.
Only question there is I'm thinking of upgrading to the LT bracket, I guess you can still use the Voile touring bracket risers, just one less screw there.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:22 am 
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I sent my risers back because they were not compatible with my Spark Mr. Chomps. They had less bite and lots of stress at the attachment point under the touring pin, as the riser almost acted like a fulcrum. So I now just have to deal with my boots hitting the top sheet periodically while skinning, especially on steeper skin tracks...damn large hooves (and mine are only an 11 in boots, really feel for the guys rocking 12+).

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:02 am 
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96avs01 wrote:
I sent my risers back because they were not compatible with my Spark Mr. Chomps. They had less bite and lots of stress at the attachment point under the touring pin, as the riser almost acted like a fulcrum.

Weird, I haven't got any of these problems with touring risers and Chomps.
I didn't notice a big difference in bite either.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:35 am 
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Location: Kodiak, AK
I'm very surprised by all the talk of topsheet contact. I have size 10.5 Burton Driver X boots with size large Burners and LT brackets. I tend to ride wide boards so toe/heel overhang is rarely an issue, and touring also not a problem. You guys need to slide your binding heel cups back a slot or two perhaps.

Here's mine:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:09 am 
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Location: Udapimp, Idaho
Ks on the front & R&Ds on the back??
Side by side test perhaps?

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:50 pm 
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b0ardski wrote:
Ks on the front & R&Ds on the back??
Side by side test perhaps?

Exactly. I offered some results in the 5th post down in this thread.

Image

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Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:32 am
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Location: Northern NM
I also have size 11 feet but my Zephyr has 26 cm waist and I ride a wide duck stance so I'm not so worried about heel/toe drag. I'm now on the fence about the risers... will definitely extend the binding heel cups first and see if that gets my boots back far enough.

EDIT: BTW, thanks Philip for all your thoughtful reviews. I was right on the fence, then your review pretty much settled my choice of Spark over Karakoram.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
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Location: reno
Toe ramps can be an effective way to keep your bindings more centered, but lift your toes enough to not run into toe drag or toes hitting the topsheet. It also helps give you a bit more power in toeside turns.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: touring bracket risers/ toe bump while skinning
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:57 am
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Location: Canada
has anyone tried installing a shim, like a chunk from an old climbing bar base, under the rear part of the Mr. Chomp while using risers?

I have 12+ feet and basically require risers! Ive never tried crampons on my split yet but wonder about these bite issues.


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