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 Post subject: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:54 am
Posts: 21
Location: jackson wy
Lets all take 2 minutes to email Scarpa and ask them to make a splitboard specific hard boot. I want one, lots of us do. We have enough of a presence to make it happen. do it!

Heres my idea of what it should look like:
The lower should be similar to a F1 with the toe bellows, dynafit toe pice, and a single forefoot buckle. The major mod is a lower profile heel (snowboarders don't need high heels).
Touring mode is necessary, obviously, but with a longer bar to increase the range of forward lean when locked out in ride mode.
The tricky part is creating a way to allow the forward flex to be independent of the back side of the cuff(which is acting like a highback), but its entirely doable (anyone remember the boots k2 made for their clicker bindings that had a high back built onto the boot itself?).
There you have it. my dream boot, lightweight, tours on dynafit toe pieces, automatic crampon compatible, low volume toe box for easy step kicking, built in highback, and still rides like a soft boot


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:41 am
Posts: 266
Location: Altadena SoCal
nickf wrote:
anyone remember the boots k2 made for their clicker bindings that had a high back built onto the boot itself?

K2 Sidewinders?
Image


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Fairhaven
You've almost described a pair of the older K2 Clicker boots with Dynafit toes instead of the Clicker interface. I had a pair of them back in the day and they sucked. A lot.

I think BD might be a better choice. I doubt the European companies will have much appreciation for splitboarding but a Utah based company is likely to see a fair number of splitboarders in their home mountains.

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I only ski uphill, mostly.


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1409
Location: UT
I like this idea for the benefit for early late season hiking approaches, but if the idea here is to use both tech toe-pieces and soft binders, that seems like a hell of a hassle to fit everything onto the board and/or carry bindings on your back.
If on the other hand you plan to ride plates, just go with any of the proven hardboots in use by many riders.

For the record I use both hardboots and softboots, so I aint looking to argue which is best :guinness:


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
Those K2 are 2steps away from hard boots w/out some key advantages.
the cuff is not articulated wich allows AT boots adjustable flex forward for ride mode, and especially rearward flex for stride in skin mode.
At this point on those k2s you may as well add a buckle ad get rid of the pta laces.I had the sky lords with high back on the boot; the metal interface UNDER the boot is ,I'll be nice here) misguided at best. The highback on the boot worked fine but the foward flex started ok then mushed out dependant on deformation of the boot shell. The even, progressive flex of my old raicles was far superior and plenty flexy (softer plastic than most ATs) for powder as well as easier to use than laces & straps.

enough ranting, just realize that an articulated cuff is key to bc efficiency and slotted hinge points allow plenty of lateral flex, which may be unnecessary if the cuff plastic is soft enough.

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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Fairhaven
Haha, you guys missed the point. The point to the hybrid is to seperate the function of the highback so that it is for heelside support only and allows for the boot to flex laterally/medially like the more typical softbood does. The downside of this is the added weight of a boot that supports itself seperately from the highback. The advantage is touring in tech bindings and fitting step in crampons. I don't think the idea is to be able to use strap bindings.

I haven't modded my hardboots yet but that seems like it will be the most difficult part of riding in them. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
nick and Jason,

I think you are right on the money in terms of having a soft boot attached to a hard shell lower with the structure for a separate highback. That way you don't have the medial flex issues of having a plastic cuff around your lower leg and forward lean is based on lacing up a conventional soft boot tongue and soft boot shell. I'd say get some F1s and make it happen. Having thought through it before this may help:

Years ago I started the process of fusing a Burton Driver on top of a Scarpa Denali. I cut out all of the forefoot area of the Scarpas leaving the toe box on and I cut the upper cuff back so it was just a highback. I also cut the sole off the drivers in order to attach it. I stopped the project because the dynafit tech inserts came out and I thought that I should use tech fitting boots so I could get a set up that would be easy for touring and that would release in a slide from touring mode. Then over the years I realized I really don't need a hard shell lower as I only ride the good days in UT and I stop climbing and ride when the snow isn't excellent anymore. Frankly, the slop in a soft boot just feels great out here to me. Total weight looked to be between 3.25 to 3.5 pounds, with the heavier Denali, so with a F1, Rush or Alien these boots could probably weigh 3lbs each or maybe a bit less.

I figured out that polyurethane construction adhesive was the way to first attach the soft boot to the hard, then you can find 1/32 drill bits that you can drill thread holes with a dremel through the plastic with to stitch the uppers on with. Maybe you'd want to pre-drill the holes for stitching into the shell before you glue on the soft boot portion. Then you can push a needle through, twist it with separate thread from the outside and tighten. When you put the cuff (now highback) back on you need to put some spacers (and perhaps find some different hardware) between the cuff and the shell as the liner adds some thickness there.

The old K2 pictured above looks like the right concept, but in reality that boot is all plastic to above your ankle, and the fabric is really window dressing glued onto on a mostly plastic boot. It's impossible to dremel away the plastic shell on those without first unstitching the glued on fabric. Also they are 5lbs each, so its not even a place to start. Unless you are fellow clicker cult member. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:41 am
Posts: 266
Location: Altadena SoCal
Like this. . .
Image
Image

But with dynafit toes like this . . .
Image
. . . but a hard boot.


I got the pics from this thread started by brett
http://www.splitboard.com/talk/viewtopi ... sc&start=0
and from this blog from a guy who installed dynafit tech toes on his spantiks. . .
http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04 ... ng-on.html


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
mmm, sort of, but I thought the problem with riding those mtn. boots was the back flex felt really bad compared to a pair of soft boots even in a highback, ant the forward flex was a bit limited too when you laced them up tight. Also the F1s, or Scarpas or Aliens, etc. don't seem like they would weigh much more once cut down and they have the structure and attachments to support a strong highback.

The other angle on this might be to take a high ski boot cuff, cut it down so it is a highback, put it on the plastic mtneering boot, then run a lop of low stretch kitesurf line or accessory cord from the top of the highback to under the toe of the boot.


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Fairhaven
Now things are getting interesting around here. I have a couple of pairs of older Burton boots (Ions from 2 years ago and SL9 from...6? years ago) that I might be willing to cut up if I can come up with the right hardboot shell to mate them too.

Scooby2: do you have any pictures of your hybrid?

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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
Sure, It'll take some digging but I'll show you how far I got. the BD primes look like good candidates too, esp. with the extra toe room they have and the good price. You can kinda see where you could remove most of the black material and leave the white on the lower


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
Not my picture, but I'm talking about doing boots like cowboy's but with a boot with a highback, leaving the highback (cut out remains of upper cuff) on. http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL682/3966141/8218894/195202045.jpg

Image

and using a soft boot instead of fabricating your own boot top, because it makes for an easier diy.


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 Post subject: Re: hard boot soft boot hybrid
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Fairhaven
I'll have to check it out at home, the picture is blocked by the filter at work. :(

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