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 Post subject: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:33 pm
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Location: New Zealand
Kia Ora

A ski building friend of mine here in New Zealand has offered to build me a splitboard. Needless to say I started frothing at the news and with no prior experience in splitboard design or building I'm looking for some input into this.

I'm starting this thread to initially settle on a design and then I'll be detailing the build. I am planning on testing the completed board in Japan, January 2013 if not earlier with a cheeky Summer mission in NZ's Southern Alps.

I've experimented with conventional set ups for a while and I'm a fan or technical big mountain riding. My current set up is a 155 Ride High Life UL combined with some floppy bindings and stiff boots.

Blower pow is non-existent here in NZ as the mountain aren't far from the coast. The snowfall more often than not comes in wet and when it freezes, or is exposed to inevitable wind, things become firm to say the least.

With that in mind I am currently thinking of a 156 cambered board with a wider nose than tail and 3/4" set back.

I was initially looking for a hybrid profile like a Freebird however a friend with this set up does not rate it in firm conditions.

As for hardware and bindings, I'm running with Spark R&D. As for me, I'm 5 8" and 67kg (148 pounds).

Well that's the pretty much the plan and brief, feel free to add your two cents. Those with board building experience I'm especially looking forward to your input.

Cheers

Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:53 am
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Location: Routt County Co.
Add magnatraction... Sounds like it may come in handy in the conditions you described.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:55 am 
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I've made and ridden pretty unique custom boards for the opposite type of conditions for some time now. Sometimes I wonder why Boarders and skiers go through all the effort to build from scratch a board that is in essence a board for hard resort type snow conditions that you can buy so cheap in the off season. But I realize so much of the fun is making your own ride or at least having a hand in it. One hurdle is that you have to find the right recipe of core thickness from tip to tail and the right fiberglass weight & cloth etc. on the first try-can be tough. I'd recommend taking one of your ski making buddies skis that is a stable, good edge gripping board that is wide like powder type ski and use the same type of wood, core profile, camber mold, and glass/carbon whatever recipe that he has had success with in your conditions. Build off his experiments that have worked instead of going way out there. The basic board made for quick turns, hard edge sets and hop turns on icy snow is probably the most refined and available design out there. Maybe just take the Ride board you like, tweak it a little if you like, but you are really copying a pretty established and proven freeride design that you can find in most mfg's board lines. I'm not sure what taper will get you in your conditions.

I would seriously use a 10 -12 meter radial (same radius all the way through) sidecut if you ride icy steeps, 12 meters maybe if you really like to haul ass and make arcs when you only have a centimeter or two of edge & base in your firmer snow. That may be the part of the custom process that gives you the best difference from an off the shelf board. I have a stiff board with a 14 meter radius, its good when you are really going fast and making clean arcs on firmer snow and open space, but it takes a while for it to bring you around for wall hits on exit trails and small features (this is on a very stiff board). If you cant find a board or ski to trace the line from, figure out how to do it on a computer or use a flat long distance tape measure and just draw it. The idea is to not have grabby tips and tails when you are on rough firm snow, you want real good predictable edge hold underfoot, not really tons of grabbiness at the very tip and tails like you might want in a carving board. Most ski profiles seem quite soft at the ends, probably because you dont have much control at the end of a ski with only one foot on it. So I would think copying the tip thickness from his skis would work well in your conditions and using a radial sidecut will keep the ends from being hooky and pesky in narrow couloir, firm snow conditions.

This would be the opposite of what I'd ride in Japan in mid-winter, or the Wasatch, but as you know any board that isnt a race board can be made to work great in great snow


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:33 pm
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Location: New Zealand
Cheers Scooby2, as for magna-traction, I've ridden with it here and it is good, but have you tried sharpening it, never mind building it.

As much as I like going fast I also tend to billy goat a bit. I think a 10m radius would be a happy medium. We have access to a cnc machine for the core and some ski profiles to help judge thicknesses. As for the top sheet the initial plan is to ditch the plastic to save weight and go for either carbon fibre or cloth finished with poly over the top for UV protection. Good idea, Bad idea?

You dead right about the motives. Kind of like why brew beer when you can buy it.... because you can.

Here's a pic of the first set of skis Rich produced, there's been a few more since.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:33 pm
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Location: New Zealand
For anyone interested here's the ski build from start to finish and here's the press
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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:28 pm
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Location: Cottonwood, UT
I think I've seen his work over on skibuilders. Sounds like a fun project.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:08 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
WhitePine wrote:
I think I've seen his work over on skibuilders. Sounds like a fun project.

Yeah he's been detailing his skis and press on ski builders. I'm meeting up with a local board builder in the next week or so to talk design. I now have a shape in mind and my next port of call is to take to a handful of boards I like with a set of callipers to get an idea of profiles. Getting this right is probably my biggest concern and I'm aware it's really a trial and error scenario. I suspect I'll end up over engineering it so it would nice to know how thin I can go.

I've also got some primitive software to play with so I should start putting some plans up here shortly. If anyone has core dimensions they'd like to share then I'll be rather happy to see them. An indication of how they ride would be great too.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:48 am
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Location: Sydney
You are talking about 2 different boards. Your NZ board will suck in Japan.
If you dont know where to start with designing a powder board, take your fav board and copy its design, then add 10-15cm to the nose length and rocker the nose with your camber mould rather than using a tip block. Then if you are not scared put a swallowtail in it. Or better yet build two, one with swallowtail and one without so you can feel the difference the swallowtail makes.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Quivers are a wonderful thing but building a bespoke powder board for two weeks in Japan is unfortunately a little out of my budget. I'm looking to make this a good touring board so my current construction thoughts are.

- 1.4mm base
- 20 or 24oz triaxle fibreglass, I'm talking to another board builder shortly to help me make up my mind.
- Bamboo core, edge to edge, no sidewall.
- More glass and no topsheet. Finished with a 2 pot urethane.

I've opted for a longer board than I normally ride to offset the heaver pack. Combining this with an early rise and setback stance will make it enough of a powder weapon for my needs. Camber under foot and a high side cut radius should deal to firm conditions.

Once I've talked to a couple more builders over core profiles and cloth I'll start on some models. I was pretty happy to discover a better programme last night thanks a local builder who was just a wealth of knowledge.

If anyone has some ideas how to dampen a stiff, light and long nosed board I'm all ears (Easy option is to only ride fresh lines and never cross a track) Realistically it will encounter crud and avalanche debris.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:48 am
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Location: Sydney
Packed Powder wrote:
Quivers are a wonderful thing but building a bespoke powder board for two weeks in Japan is unfortunately a little out of my budget. I'm looking to make this a good touring board so my current construction thoughts are.

- 1.4mm base
- 20 or 24oz triaxle fibreglass, I'm talking to another board builder shortly to help me make up my mind.
- Bamboo core, edge to edge, no sidewall.
- More glass and no topsheet. Finished with a 2 pot urethane.

I've opted for a longer board than I normally ride to offset the heaver pack. Combining this with an early rise and setback stance will make it enough of a powder weapon for my needs. Camber under foot and a high side cut radius should deal to firm conditions.

Once I've talked to a couple more builders over core profiles and cloth I'll start on some models. I was pretty happy to discover a better programme last night thanks a local builder who was just a wealth of knowledge.

If anyone has some ideas how to dampen a stiff, light and long nosed board I'm all ears (Easy option is to only ride fresh lines and never cross a track) Realistically it will encounter crud and avalanche debris.

Core thickness gives damping. Also a top sheet is another layer that will give stiffness, if you are keen on a urethane finish why not go for a timber veneer top sheet, they look sexy and will add stiffness/damping.

PS you should go to skibuilders dot com and read threads for a few hours/days lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Bamboo's not the lightest material so adding to the core will add significantly to the weight, as will a top sheet. It's one of those catch 22's but weight is a priority over aesthetics. Stiffness is not an issue and I can achieve this without adding significant weight. The question should really be, dampening ideas for a light and reasonably stiff board.


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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:59 am
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Location: Amsterdam
I can confirm that adding Magnatraction is a little bit of a problem for the DIY projects. :lol:
Shaping the core and base is not so much of a problem, but bending steel edges exactly into that shape is almost some kind of punishment. Had to try it though, but it took me about 6 hours just to attach the edges...

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 Post subject: Re: Starting from Scratch - Building from the ground up.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:38 pm 
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double post, please remove

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