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 Post subject: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:35 am
Posts: 5
Hi everybody,

just wanted to add a few words to the posts by Markus in the Ride-split thread. I know him quite well and I don’t think his aim was to be offensive. He’s working really hard to improve the performance of the boards he’s cutting. And even though his posts don’t seem to be very constructive – his solutions are!

I guess what he wanted to say is, that you can easily reduce the number of inserts in a DIY splitboard, what will be good for the stability and weight. And if you’re sure about your stance you don’t need inserts at all. Just like this onepice abacus, he splitted a few days ago:

Image

Image


More:
http://www.jr-teams.com/ArborAbacusSplit2010.htm

So let's :drinks: and shake :thumbsup: :thumbsup: again


P.S. I know my English is rotten. So if something sounds strange to you, blame it on my laziness at school.


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 2:39 pm
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Location: Where the kids go to retire
Tobi wrote:

P.S. I know my English is rotten. So if something sounds strange to you, blame it on my laziness at school.


Nice looking board. Your English is actually far more understandable than his, and far better than my German.


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:23 pm 
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That's a nice looking board :thumbsup: Any pics of the base?

Burton does some nice work for sure.

Are those extra inserts I see there on that Abacus? How many total? 12? 16?
Image

Someone should warn him that those things are to be used in moderation :P

I don't have any issues with Burton; just giving him a taste of his own medicine I do think his 3-piecers are kinda goofy though :drinks:


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:48 pm
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Location: N. Vancouver <=> Santa Cruz
Yeah, the board does look nice. Looks like he was able to install the inserts w/o going through the base? Nice. Looks like he's a good craftsmen. My only qualm with Marcus is his insistence on picking apart Monk's boards almost every time the subject of a Monk board is brought up, it's gotten a little old for me. Maybe it's just constructive criticism lost in translation.
Anyway, the board looks good Marcus, thanks for posting Tobi.


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:41 am 
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Hi wavy

look at Scooby2s post in the original thread, his text is quite to the point. The additional inserts are made for stance changes. Because this board wasn't customized for a specific rider.

For the next board Markus said something about glued pucks. I wait in suspense...


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:53 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
I think the original thread drift was a case of the point getting lost in translation. Burton's point about all those additional inserts weakening the core certainly makes sense. I think the issue is that we don't all have access to custom machining, and we don't want to have a locked in stance. So then, if you're talking about making a DIY split using standard Voile parts as much as possible, while still having a stance as adjustable as a production split, then I think monk is doing a great job.

When it comes to pushing the envelope and trying out new ideas, I love seeing burton's posts. This board is a great example. I like the idea of using the existing inserts and just adding a few for the outside screws. If you always ride the same angles, this is nice because you can easily say move the rear foot back a bit for big pow days and not have to futz with getting the angle and alignment correct like you do with the Voile universal pucks. However, I don't see how you can adjust the angle without cutting new blocks.

Are the touring brackets mounted with wood screws, or those "drop-in" inserts? I guess I'd just be concerned about those ripping out w/o using t-nuts. I think there can be a surprising amount of force on the touring bracket when skinning.

And are those vintage Burton S-Series (pre-Voile) split hooks? Does he have a stash or something? I always liked the way those worked, but it's a bit of a bummer that you can't swivel them out of the way when skinning. Every little bit of drag counts. I do think he should have kept the old Burton tip/tail clips though! :)

On a semi-related note, one thing I did love about the original Burton S-Series was that there were NO HOLES in the base! None. Why can't someone come up with a better split hook mounting system that doesn't require drilling through the base, at least on production splits?


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm
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Location: near munich
Image



This is my slideradapterpate , youse the orginal 4x4 inserts ... each adapterplate 2 orginal inserts - and 2 skiscrewns ... no hols in the base ... stand is not fix - change at all time ...



Burton

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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:35 pm 
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very nice burton :headbang:

I think constructive criticism and debate is good. There are pros and cons with each approach.

I betcha burtons' boards are lighter. Nice solution to different stance angles with the puck adapter.

How much "testing" have you done with the screws for the touring bracket? Any failures?


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:09 am 
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Thankx powderjunky

I think - when i critisin - i must bring a better idee ore a new way ....

the touringbrackeds with crewsn + glue are ok - when the core is good ,for all time youse crampons are INSERTS better .
Long and havy 2 pice boards ned Inserts too , on Touringbrakeds .

next step is glue all plates on board :wink:


Burton

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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:45 pm 
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powderjunkie wrote:
How much "testing" have you done with the screws for the touring bracket? Any failures?

I'm curious about the screws on the custom and universal pucks you've used. You don't have any fear of those ripping out when you're riding? Seems a little scary as the screws are used right at the toe and heel where I'd think you'd see the most leverage when turning. The puck adapter plate looks pretty cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:53 am 
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i ride 20 year s raceboard s - custom racers - the real custom race board on the beginning had no insert . the had olny screwn with glue - youse the right screwns ... and a good core - no problems ... i had 85 kg nacked ... not a light wight bird on top ....

the second adappter generation is this time in work .... laser cut and milling ... eloxal ... next time pictures of finish ... and trip report .


burton

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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 355
Wavy,
The load on the pucks is really on the inside edges of the split. Imagine you are edging hard on your toeside. the force to hold your board up on the toe edge is the upward pull from the inside screws from the toe side puck. Right on the toe edge on the outside of the board, the puck is being pushed down, so not a lot of upward force on the screws on the outside of the board, they really just help hold lateral forces which are probably much less, and much easier for a screw to hold.
In terms of the load on your screws think of a split as two separate skis being levered over on edge, the inside loads. I bet you could get away without screws on the outside of custom pucks like burton has on his splits for many seasons, provided the material was stiff enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Make boards without inserts – not war
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:59 am 
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It is ready mounted , not eloxal - is powdercoating in red . on a modifiy Head 157 with fishswallow aktuell it is 150 cm long an the waist 24,9 mm


Image

This board is a special short board for nordside pipes :mrgreen:
for extrem downhills in the spring time :thatrocks:
The fishswallow stole the boar 7 cm - and bring a littel bit easyer fast turns


Image

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