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Splitboard.com Forums • View topic - Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?


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 Post subject: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:05 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Norway
Hi.
I would like to hear if others have experienced problems with swallowtails in breakable crust?
One of my last rides this spring was almost ending in disaster.
The snow was perfect. Powder on the top, and slush further down. But when i entered the trees and steeper terrain, and had to slow down. I suddenly found out that i was not able to skid at all. The swallowtails on my Voile was getting caught under the icy spring crust, on top of the powder. I manadget to stop and walk down to a fire road, where the sun still was holding the snow slushy.
I really love my swallow. But I have to solve this problem because I split mostly in the spring. I wonder if it could help to grind the inside edges of on the tails.
If not. How does rockered boards, like the Banana Hamoc performe in powder, compared to swallowtails?

/Gunnar


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:27 pm
Posts: 1450
Location: Denver
A more traditional shape will work better in those conditions. Keep in mind they suck. Rocker boards are great until it gets icy. In breakable crust I don't see a big deal with 'em. Pintails are a good (maybe better when you consider skinning option) too.


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:05 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Norway
Killclimbz wrote:
A more traditional shape will work better in those conditions. Keep in mind they suck. Rocker boards are great until it gets icy. In breakable crust I don't see a big deal with 'em. Pintails are a good (maybe better when you consider skinning option) too.


Yea, I really like my Fish in brakable crust and slush. But in real pow, it lacks flotation and speed stability.

They say Lib's rockered Skate Banan with Magna Traction edges is no problem on ice.
Imagine the adition of a combination of Bataleons, and Dynastar 4807's spoon shaped edges.
On the outside in the nose, and on both the in and outside edges on the tail.


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:57 pm
Posts: 5106
Location: California
Swallowtails are specialty guns. If you want versatility in all conditions I would look for a more traditional shape.

:twocents: :)


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:05 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Norway
As said before. Traditional sucks!
I think its possible to make the "speciality gun" shape much more versatile, without loosing any of the pow performance.
I would like to start with adding a powder channel over the swallowtail. That would solve the crust problem. And make much easyer to traverse and land fakie.
I cant se anything negative happening, just a tiny extra weight.
Do anyon know what type of material Volkl are using for the powderchannel on the Selecta and the Katana's?
I dont have any experience with replacing steel edges. Do you think it would it be possible to replace the inside edges with the powderchannel material?


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 442
Location: Western Washington
If you are trying to retain most of the swallowtail performance w/o the tail issue, the Prior Spearhead shape would make sense. You get the long gradual upturn of the nose in a fairly traditional style with a solid tail and some taper in the overall shape. I have not ridden this board yet, plan on going out of my way to this upcoming season. The nose shape is a BIG part of powder performance, with the big high speed swallowtails having a fairly stiff low nose, and the medium speed designed ones having a taller slightly softer profile. The shorter twin tip boards that are out there usually have a fairly short (comparatively) nose that is too tall. Think pushing the snow, instead of climbing to the top of it. Which is why they need so much taper to perform. If you want to see some less used alternatives in pow that perform well all round, look at the Spearhead, Pogo Longboard, Dupraz D1 and it's various stiffness models. Also look at te Rad-Air Tanker line, great all rounders, good at speed, however the swallowtail shapes are better uber deep pow boards.

_________________
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them (Frederick Douglass)


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:27 pm
Posts: 1450
Location: Denver
Rockered boards with MTX are better than ones without. I wouldn't say no problem. A cambered board will be better on ice. The banana hammock would really suck on ice with the reverse sidecut and all. I am not sure about breakable crust but I can say my friends with reverse sidecut skis have a much harder time in those conditions than those withouth. The hammock is another specialty board. Probably not the board you want. The banana tech is fine but I would stay away from the reverse sidecut.
Neversummer's rocker camber tech is pretty impressive. I think it works better than the MTX imo, but I am also partial to the company. It is a good option for a split and Neversummer's dampening will make breakable crust much less of an issue than any other board. They do dampening better than anyone. The weight penalty is no longer there either. The Summit (pintail) is what I have for a split and it works great in all the pow and spring conditions that I have ridden. It also has done a fine job of busting through breakable crust.


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 550
Location: Stowe, VT
Second JD's recommendation, but from the opposite perspective. I have never ridden a swallow tail, but the prior spearhead floats incredibly well with the long soft nose. I didn't have open bowls to really open it up in, but I never found a real speed limit on it, if I remember correctly.

Shep


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
Gunnar,
I don't think there are any boards mass-produced that are adept at riding stronger breakable crusts. Try to keep your front foot right at the surface where you are braking the crust without going under. That will keep the soft nose of your board from flexing too far in the strong surface crust. Once the nose of your board goes into a stiff crust it is usually way too soft and folds up kicking you out of your arc or into a cartwheel. Carve big round arcs back across and up the fall line. It can be a lot of fun when not too strong a crust.


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:47 am 
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Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:09 pm
Posts: 388
Location: Chamonix, France
the never summer titan requires a bit of work to keep afloat in deep powder, but even with the stance set back all the way it is killer in bad conditions. I have absolutely zero complaints for crusts, ice, slush, and deep & bumpy (tracked out) 3 day old chowder. I suck, but that board really made up for it.

Update: that sounded kinda bad... It *was* great fun in powder, but it really excels in shitty conditions, and it turns very fast for a board its size.


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 Post subject: Re: Big problems on a swallow/ Best brdshape for breaking crust?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:05 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Norway
Thx Scooby. I have not had any problem at all in crust on my Fish, or fishtailed 4807.
For once, I blame the equipment 100%. The long and narrow swallowtails acts exactly like the tails on skiis in crust, making it impossible to skid.
The problem could be solved by adding a powderchannel, matching the shape of the 4807's fishtail.
I think it should be possible to cut slots over the steeledges with a diamond blade , and glue the powderchannel p-tex with epoxy, and maybe a few pop rivets.
I just need to fint the right kind of p-tex.


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