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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 2:16 am
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Location: New Zealand
my 2cents worth......

solid boards - easy
skis - still pretty easy
splitboard - hard!

reasons quite simple.....

1. precision insert positioning is critical for the touring pivots especially. I have seen this done wrong on some big name boards too and its a reject, even a slight mis-alignment makes it a dud.
2. inside edge requires precision to finish the board dead straight, this is all the way through the process from fitting edges (avoiding twisting the base material) through to pressing (keeping it straight whilst setting up in the press and hoping it all does not move while in the press) through to final cutout and finishing, not done right and you will get a reject.....
3. graphics gets trickier for same reasons as above
4. final hardware mountup takes time
5. hardware from Voile includes paying Voile a royalty fee
6. reject rate is prob higher than with solids adding to overall costs
7. many more reasons I just cannot recall in a 2 minute posting......

building splits is fun but it does your head in, I am building a cnc to help mitigate some of the risks above mentioned and improve the pace and efficiency.

just my opinion, built a few custom splits and skis now from ground up and that's my gut feel, bigger companies should be able to improve tooling and process fast with their resources $$$ so speeding it up, but no question Splits are not 10 mins faster to build and take a lot more investment to build well too.....

cheers
Rich

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:51 am
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Location: Surfing or Splitboarding Downunder
Guys
Like Rich says its more work.
Easy test to see if your board is quality.
1. Undo the nose and tail clips
2. Fit a 6mm rod through the touring brackets
3. See if the ying yang clips "face up"
4. See if the nose and tail are perfectly aligned.
5. Measure from the inside edge to the inserts on both sides.

These 4 tests will show how hard it is to make a Splitboard perfectly symmetrical.
Hey measure the side wall to inserts on a solid board and see if they are dead center, I bet you they aren't
I’ve cut too many board where the distance from inside edge to inserts is 5mm out on factory solids.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Location: reno
The only real dificulty is the graphics in the layup process, but it's still not rocket science!

So when I commented originally, it was directed more towards bigger split manufacturers. Getting the core right is really the only thing detrimental to the building process. CNC does make this a no brainer though. Perhaps what I saw in my experience of splitboard manufacturing was way ahead of everybody else although unless you are high 24-7 and don't have a bit of creativity to figure it out.... There are sooo many ways to make it easy and quality all at the same time.

It all comes back down to price that consumers are willing to spend in the end. Yes it does take a little longer, but with the proper tools, labor really isn't that much more between splits and solids. Not enough to truly justify the $300 (and in some cases more!) mark up.

Go Rossi!!!! I'll have 2 please! :lol:

On a different note......I most certainly wouldn't be wasting my time ranting on such meaningless topics if we had any damn snow!!!!!!! :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Wakatipu, NZ
Hey guys figured id chime in as firstlight said i snapped my XV Split on my final day of the season.
Image

Not too sure how i did it but as stated it was only this board half that snapped. No damage on the side walls from impact, nothing on the base. the other board half was fine with no damage or signs of fatigue.
http://splitboardnz.com/2013/10/10/gear-review-rossignol-xv-magtek-splitboard/
Not to share my own shit but did a review of this board after a season riding it on a set of lightrails and a few days on a pair of Spark Afterburners and i totally rate it.

Its been replaced under warranty and i thought about selling it but i think ill just ride it again next season. It slays it in the pow and charges pretty hard.

FYI this is the first board ive ever snapped. Im 183cm (6ft) and about 90-95kg (200lb-ish)

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
hmmm, I think there is more to it in the costings, so a bit of a breakdown to work out the difference eh.

First of all deduct the cost of tip/tail clips and chinese hooks or k-clips, included in that is a royalty paid to Voile when you buy the clips from them. In NZ dollars this lots costs around $90 bucks give or take a bit depending on K-clips or chinese hooks eh.

Finishing the inside edge to dead straight - add an extra 15-30 mins I recon, if its a big chinese factory then maybe its done quicker dunno but it takes me way longer to get it right.

the layup time is more complex, way way more critical alignment of the cores and topsheet over the base, and add the extra inserts and vds tape, this adds maybe another 10-15 mins or more, again depending on how much care you want to put into it

bending and fitting edges is more time consuming on a splitboard as there are more pieces and joints if you do a full wrap - for me add 30 minutes

more complex core with inside sidewalls - add 10 mins or more plus more UHMW

10 more inserts - add 10 bucks

to tune and finish its a lot more effort on a splitboard to grind 2 halves rather than one solid

yes a cnc does help a lot and the process can be tweaked to mitigate and manage the complexity. The cost of developing splitboard building to a high level needs to be recouped or in the end you make no money, business is business.

and in the end maybe there is a bit of a premium put on splitboards, but my view is its simply way more complex than a solid board they are poles apart and anyone who wants a cheap splitboard might just be best to watch out for closeout deals then its more affordable if you have the patience eh - sorry guys that was not meant to sound arrogant if it did then please excuse me, it was more just a pointer to the many good deals out there if you are patient eh. cheers

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am
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Location: a mile high COLORADO
That is the exact spot I've snapped in! directly under the force of the binding, usually easier to snap when you land Way back seat or say on your hip or side. :nononno: shit happens! Rossi doesn't use the best top sheet material, that is one thing that I would like them to look into improving. My one mag diy top sheet is delaminated and now separating from the rest of the board in numerous spots. It's almost as though the top sheet material is to brittle to withstand the constant flex while touring.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:51 pm
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Location: Wakatipu, NZ
I guess thats why i got the replacement. must be a fairly common issue with them.
TBH it doesn't bother me, i really like this board. i was really negative going into it due to it being rossi's first split and freaking about the size but its such a fun deck and it can ride any condition.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:55 pm 
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I like bgnight's pissy early season topics - totally cathartic and rad.

That folded Rossi (and other reports thereof) is exactly why I don't ride corporate production decks (unless it's a race board built to handle pressure). I've broken the majority of them I've owned over the years. It sucks and it's dangerous, both from the standpoint of having equipment fail at speed and, if in the bc, having to hobble home.

The difference in quality and durability between quality-focused companies like venture and never summer vs. corporados like Rossi etal. is definitely more consequential for 220 lb silverbacks like me than frisky lemurs like bgnight. Expensive and burly makes for a better overall value for someone like me.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Taylor wrote:
I like bgnight's pissy early season topics - totally cathartic and rad.

That folded Rossi (and other reports thereof) is exactly why I don't ride corporate production decks (unless it's a race board built to handle pressure). I've broken the majority of them I've owned over the years. It sucks and it's dangerous, both from the standpoint of having equipment fail at speed and, if in the bc, having to hobble home.

The difference in quality and durability between quality-focused companies like venture and never summer vs. corporados like Rossi etal. is definitely more consequential for 220 lb silverbacks like me than frisky lemurs like bgnight. Expensive and burly makes for a better overall value for someone like me.


Good lesson for me as one of the small guys in this business too, great to see real life R&D going on. The top sheet failing like this indicates that really the core is not up to the task, I suspect the core buckled first and left the poor top sheet under a huge amount of compression with no support to hold it in place to do what it needed to do. Good to see the warranty was sorted at least! Adam I'll let you try and fold one of mine sometime mate.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:57 pm 
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richie wrote:
Taylor wrote:
I like bgnight's pissy early season topics - totally cathartic and rad.

That folded Rossi (and other reports thereof) is exactly why I don't ride corporate production decks (unless it's a race board built to handle pressure). I've broken the majority of them I've owned over the years. It sucks and it's dangerous, both from the standpoint of having equipment fail at speed and, if in the bc, having to hobble home.

The difference in quality and durability between quality-focused companies like venture and never summer vs. corporados like Rossi etal. is definitely more consequential for 220 lb silverbacks like me than frisky lemurs like bgnight. Expensive and burly makes for a better overall value for someone like me.


Good lesson for me as one of the small guys in this business too, great to see real life R&D going on. The top sheet failing like this indicates that really the core is not up to the task, I suspect the core buckled first and left the poor top sheet under a huge amount of compression with no support to hold it in place to do what it needed to do. Good to see the warranty was sorted at least! Adam I'll let you try and fold one of mine sometime mate.


I would love to conduct a circular saw autopsy on one of these boards to see what failed and where.

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195 Glissade Big Gun
187 Donek Custom Split
181 Venture Storm Solid and Split
173 Rossi Race DIY Swallowtail Split


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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:51 pm
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Location: Wakatipu, NZ
richie wrote:
Taylor wrote:
I like bgnight's pissy early season topics - totally cathartic and rad.

That folded Rossi (and other reports thereof) is exactly why I don't ride corporate production decks (unless it's a race board built to handle pressure). I've broken the majority of them I've owned over the years. It sucks and it's dangerous, both from the standpoint of having equipment fail at speed and, if in the bc, having to hobble home.

The difference in quality and durability between quality-focused companies like venture and never summer vs. corporados like Rossi etal. is definitely more consequential for 220 lb silverbacks like me than frisky lemurs like bgnight. Expensive and burly makes for a better overall value for someone like me.


Good lesson for me as one of the small guys in this business too, great to see real life R&D going on. The top sheet failing like this indicates that really the core is not up to the task, I suspect the core buckled first and left the poor top sheet under a huge amount of compression with no support to hold it in place to do what it needed to do. Good to see the warranty was sorted at least! Adam I'll let you try and fold one of mine sometime mate.


That last one you did looked killer rich, I'm good at wrecking shit, consider it product development!

Mostly I'm just happy I didn't waste some serious cash on a new board for one season!

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Location: mountains of portland, oregon
the moment of snappage

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 Post subject: Re: What's the deal? My Rossi XV and some old man bitching.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:42 pm 
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Total snappage. Rad!

Double snappage too--snappage of snappage...

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195 Glissade Big Gun
187 Donek Custom Split
181 Venture Storm Solid and Split
173 Rossi Race DIY Swallowtail Split


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