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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:14 am 
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Location: Colorado
shredgnar wrote:
but wait, what about the sidecut of the rocker when the radius is minimized? You guys are a joke. Go slide on snow, it's not rocket surgery.
:D

But seriously if you find some snow in Colorado hook me up! Wait... maybe that why everyone keeps talking about sidecut radii cause there's no powder just hardpack here :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:01 am 
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Location: Colorado
PedroDelfuego wrote:
shredgnar wrote:
but wait, what about the sidecut of the rocker when the radius is minimized? You guys are a joke. Go slide on snow, it's not rocket surgery.
:D

But seriously if you find some snow in Colorado hook me up! Wait... maybe that why everyone keeps talking about sidecut radii cause there's no powder just hardpack here :cry:


Yes pedro is right, although JK, ABP, and I did find some old pow on Friday, but it took some doing. Other problem is many areas do not even have any coverage, and the recent deep freeze period rendered most tree areas facets from ground to surface. I have a new split I have not even ridden this season, 'cause the coverage is so bad. So, if you see posts from us CO riders, please give us some leeway, we are really frustrated considering we are enduring the second season in a row of this... :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:51 am
Posts: 636
But arguing on the internet about board shapes is almost like slaying deep creamy powder, except you don't get all covered in snow. :cry:


Right there with you barrows. I'm about to split a rockboard split so I can actually go out and scare myself since I can't seem to bring myself to taking out either of my brand new, shiny splits out and subjecting them to this crappy snowpack.


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:01 am 
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Posts: 350
Location: Green Mountains
Breakwater wrote:
barrows wrote:
shredgnar wrote:
barrows wrote:
Yes, I would rather be riding, if we had any snow... It has been a very frustrating season so far for those of us in CO. I did manage to get around 4K+ feet of splitting in yesterday, even managed to drop off a small cornice into about about 5 medium radius turns in creamy pow before hitting the windpack... But we need way more snow, help Ullr! Please.


I am on the East-Coast. And you win.
:lol:


We aren't doing any better in the East...
btw..many good chefs have serrated knives for cutting tomatoes...but shh, that's a little industry secret.


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
jimw wrote:
Breakwater wrote:
jimw wrote:
Breakwater wrote:
Taking the same sidecut radius extended out onto a longer board makes it effectively not as deep.

Huh? Please explain. Unless you're talking about other performance differences from using a longer board I'm not following this.

Draw a circle with a perfect 1" radius. Pretend that radius of the bottom half of the circle is the sidecut of the board.
and, Prentend it's on your computer screen.

Now, pull that circle to the left and to the right.. make it longer longitudinally. Don't make it any bigger vertically.

At the end you still have a 1" radius sidecut. It's just that now you have an oval. You extended the LENGTH, not the DEPTH.
The sidecut is just as deep when measured. But on an oval it's effectively not as deep when engaged in a turn.

Umm... how did you do in high school math? :) By changing it into an oval, you just changed it to a non-constant radius sidecut.



No kidding wise-guy.
Show me where I claimed that the oval was a constant radius sidecut.
What I actually claimed if you care to re-read was that the same sidecut is effectively not as deep on a longer board.... because of... well, what you're trying to pin me on.

DERP!

In reality the "oval" sidecut as referenced is similar to a quadratic sidecut.
Either way, It's not all CV*nTed up with Magne-Gimmick. Either way it's a feathered in radius, not a schizo radius.



If it makes anyone feel any better, I went riding today.
My home mountain (which will remain nameless 'cause I love the place) had no-water anywhere on site. And, on the same note the septic was backed up.
I took one pass through the door of the mens room, and it smelled like a bad day in Bosnia. I turned around.

Dude in the lift-line behind me was on his iPhone, and asked a friend to pick him up a McRib, and bring it up to the Mtn.
oof.

I spent the rest of the day on the lifts.
Made an awesome doodie when I got home.

What's up with this website? Do people usually look to prove the other guy wrong... Is that the culture or something.
Nah, It's just the interwebz.
I thought this topic was about boards that fit what I preferr in equipment, and was asking for help to find them in the marketplace.
Thanks for.... Um, helping?


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:38 pm
Posts: 249
Location: powder central, bc, canuckistan
i think? peeps here are, mostly, trying to help...
i think you might feel that peeps are trying to prove you wrong cuz.... well... you might be!
you've stated some pretty strong opinions based on one day on one board, a bit of waxin around, and pickin up some decks in the shops...

you have i think 5 options on your table, you discounted 2 of them because you don't understand how their profiles distribute pressure along the edge. honestly now, snow isn't just water, its frozen water. pow pow does act like a fluid dynamic mechanic but thats really cuz its mostly air. settled/packed snow is solid, not fluid. thats why snowboards aren't rigid like your surf ride, and why weird looking rocker camber combinations actually work really well. consider that delivering evenly distributed pressure with your edges, from your unevenly distributed feet, can be done with an unevenly shaped profile.
if you think its a beginners gimmick, come up to revelstoke sometime and we'll try you on some of our green :mrgreen: runs

you're remarkably open minded about one option that would be a sweet ride on maybe a couple / few daze every few years (more or less) in your snow climate. you say you have a quiver of options but i'm not clear if your other options are split boards? if you're just going to have one split ride you will probably appreciate some versatility.

rocker does take some getting used to. with most profiles you might have to adjust the centering of your stance, and train yourself to react with power to the back foot if you start into the back seat. its well worth the adjustment. :twocents:

your totally right there is some value in discussing your options before throwin down the coin... even more value in demoing all your options for at least a few hours in variable conditions before deciding what you 'love' and 'hate'.

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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
^^^ +1.

People on this forum actually are really helpful (a lot more so than other forums to remain nameless). I guess you might not know that though since your first post here was 3 days ago. People aren't looking to prove you wrong, but when you come in here spouting off strong opinions but don't have your facts straight, well then expect people to question you. Which brings us to...

Breakwater wrote:
jimw wrote:
Breakwater wrote:
jimw wrote:
Breakwater wrote:
Taking the same sidecut radius extended out onto a longer board makes it effectively not as deep.

Huh? Please explain. Unless you're talking about other performance differences from using a longer board I'm not following this.

Draw a circle with a perfect 1" radius. Pretend that radius of the bottom half of the circle is the sidecut of the board.
and, Prentend it's on your computer screen.

Now, pull that circle to the left and to the right.. make it longer longitudinally. Don't make it any bigger vertically.

At the end you still have a 1" radius sidecut. It's just that now you have an oval. You extended the LENGTH, not the DEPTH.
The sidecut is just as deep when measured. But on an oval it's effectively not as deep when engaged in a turn.

Umm... how did you do in high school math? :) By changing it into an oval, you just changed it to a non-constant radius sidecut.


No kidding wise-guy.
Show me where I claimed that the oval was a constant radius sidecut.
What I actually claimed if you care to re-read was that the same sidecut is effectively not as deep on a longer board....

Oh, OK, why didn't you just say what you really meant? Because when you said "Taking the same sidecut radius extended out onto a longer board makes it effectively not as deep", I took that to mean that you were actually talking about the same sidecut radius in a longer board. Hence the question. Then your explanation is totally not taking the same sidecut radius. Now maybe it's just that you're not very good at explaining what's in your head, but we can only go on what you actually write here.

Clearly you're not interested in getting feedback on other options you may not have considered or the reasoning behind your current requirements, and you have very specific requirements, so good luck in your search. You will probably be limited to models that have a specific wide option.

And glad you had an awesome doodie.


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Location: Salida, Flagstaff
OP: Donek will make their shapes into splits, and will customize to any length, width and sidecut configuration for no extra charge. Endless options, great value and quality. They also have a board width calculator on the lower right hand side of this webpage that is a useful tool: http://donek.com/snowboards/freestyle-freeride/hazelwood/

Shredgnar: Hugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Washington
Zephyr 160/26 and be done with it. Don't want to hear any bullshit about 2mm.

Also, OCD for the win. Next level.


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:10 am 
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Location: Colorado
Breakwater: I think most here are trying to help, we got de-railed a bit when some things here were, perhaps, misinterpreted. In any case, I think you would be best served by folks here if you just gave some information on what kind of ride you are looking for in a splitboard. I, at least, am a little confused when you mention carving uphill circles and such, as this kind of riding just does not happen in the backcountry? OK, so you need around a 26+ CM waist, I conclude that you are rockin' US size 11 plus feet, right? Now, what are going to be the predominant conditions you want to ride in? You say you are back east, so we are talking, generally, smaller mountains, and tight, mini golf style terrain. I have ridden the backcountry around Stowe for example, where the terrain can be steep, with tight trees, little cliffs, waterfalls, bushes, and can be some powder, but usually not deep. If I was living there, I would choose a board which offers very quick turning, and which rides with a nose up attitude to clear obstacles, and allow for powder riding even at moderate speeds. I usually advise folks looking for a backcountry board for back east to try one of the "fish" type splitboards: the Jones Hovercraft, Chimera Unicorn Chaser, Prior Khyber, or Trapper Trout Trap. These boards combine a tapered shape, with a short tail and setback stance, keeping the board riding with a nose up attitude to clear obstacles (without having to be maching) and also are very manueverable, even at moderate speeds, because of the smaller tail. Getting the width you are looking for may be a little challenging though, although it appears that the Hovercraft fits the bill, and apparently the "magnetration" is moderate enough to not bother you conceptually. Now, you are going to rant about the weird camber profile on the Chimera Unicorn Chaser, but worry not, it is subtle, and it does, actually work very well, and Chimera may make a wider version to suit you (not all the boards they make are listed at their site: chimerasnowboards.com). The most "normal" of these is likely the Trapper Trout Trap, I do not remember the width though, you will need to check their site: trappersnowboards.com.
These style boards seem specialized at first, out here in the west with our bigger terrain I prefer a board designed to be more stable at higher speeds, but back east one of these would be a quiver of one for the backcountry, where the terrain and snow conditions do not allow for much high speed riding.
If, conceptually, something about the "fish" style boards bothers you, then you should consider a more "normal" board like the aforementioned Venture Zephyr with a 26 cm waist or the Never Summer SL. Yes, these boards have variable radius sidecuts, and a complex rocker/camber profile on the SL, get over it, none of these profiles are so radical that they are going to make the board dictate to you only one possible way to ride it. In fact, the Never Summer R/C pofile is designed to account for the fact that your weight is not evenly distributed over the board with a traditional profile: there is much more weight over your feet, the Never Summer R/C profile actually provides a ride with the pressure more evenly distributed along the entire board surface. With respect to karkis, who loves the Never Summer SL, it is not a board for me out here (but that is just personal preference, I do not like the deep sidecut), but for back east, that is a board I would consider as it would also be highly manueverable.

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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
Taylor wrote:
OP: Donek will make their shapes into splits, and will customize to any length, width and sidecut configuration for no extra charge. Endless options, great value and quality. They also have a board width calculator on the lower right hand side of this webpage that is a useful tool: http://donek.com/snowboards/freestyle-freeride/hazelwood/

Shredgnar: Hugs.



Thank You.
This is very on-topic, on-point, and VERY, VERY helpful.

I was not aware Donek did custom widening for no extra charge prior to this thread.... I did know Prior's charge is $150 for a custom widening.
In that case I can research Donek and probably add a few of thier boards that fit my criteria of:

-Above 26.2 Waist Width
-Around 160 Lengh, (looking in 159-163 range)
-No, or extremely low Magne-traction.
-Either Rocker or Camber but not a blended varying mix of both.


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
powslash wrote:
Zephyr 160/26 and be done with it. Don't want to hear any bullshit about 2mm.

Also, OCD for the win. Next level.



I dont' know.
Maybe I said somewhere before that I boot out slightly on a Ride DH 2.1 that is 26.2 in the waist, but don't have my feet lift the edge off the ground. I won't make a sacrifice on anything less than 26.2, whether you like it or not. I really don't care if you don't like that fact.
Afterall guy. I'm the one riding this board. Not you.
Again, christ, what works for me might not work for you. What works for you might not work for me.

If you are gluten intolerant, just have a little dab of bread with your bowl of soup.
I don't want to hear any bullshit about a crumb of bread. Espeicially when you are keeled-over vomiting and crapping your brains out.

Me, I love Gluten.
:guinness:
But you should try a crumb because Gluten works for me


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 Post subject: Re: Wide Splitboards. Above 26.2 Waist
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 66
[quote="jimw"]you have very specific requirements, so good luck in your search. You will probably be limited to models that have a specific wide option.

No Kidding Rocket Surgerist.
If I could ride any board off the rack I wouldn't be here looking for help on a wide board, I would waltz into a shop, pick a shiny new split off the rack with EPIC Graphicz and go ride.

In that case I wouldn't be here looking for help to find the wides in the Marketplace. I'd be out riding a.... whatever.


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