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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Kyle Miller wrote:
russman wrote:
Kyle, I'm coming next time


Russel, I know you only mean well, but this brings up an excellent topic.

I LOVE how stoked you are about splitboarding and your enthusiasm is both positive and contagious, but, you, and other people who have recently begun splitboarding, need to be sure to respect the mountain and take it slow, man. This is not some Jeremy Jones feature film. Just keep doing what you're doing, and be patient with yourself, do more lines and gain more experience, and allow yourself to grow a little, before constantly wanting to hop on any expedition where your life is gonna lie in the balance. As you know, because I've told you this before, I do midwinter search and rescue and have seen more than my share of dead bodies. God forbid I have to dig anyone from this board up at any point. Please be careful. We don't need anymore untimely casualties, especially considering recent events in the ski mountaineering community.

On that note, I am also still learning and gaining experience every day. None of us are above mother nature.


That was very unlike the Kyle Miller I know! Wooh man, I mean, sure the stuff you and Jason have pulled off is downright fantastic, but no need for elitism.

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:23 am 
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russman wrote:
Kyle Miller wrote:
russman wrote:
Kyle, I'm coming next time


Quote:
That was very unlike the Kyle Miller I know! Wooh man, I mean, sure the stuff you and Jason have pulled off is downright fantastic, but no need for elitism.


Russ--Your taking Kyle's comments the wrong way as I didn't take it as elitist at all. I thought he was being kind and honest. Once you've been around the bc community a little longer you'll pick up on some unspoken rules like...never invite yourself on someone's trip, especially someone like Kyle whose very goal orientated. Partnering up is a delicate, evolving processes that you have to be patient with. Experienced folks want to see newbies ride all conditions, different types of lines, suffer, etc. before taking them on big trips. Riding skillz are a must but there's much more to it. Be patient and respectful and you'll gain people's trust quicker than just being enthusiastic and fit.

Most people would just not call you for an invite, Kyle explained why he doesn't think your ready. Instead of becoming defensive, contemplate on people's comments and take something away.

PS I fully expect you to lash back at me.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:38 am 
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Location: reiter hills
Freedom...

I think it is up to Russ to decide what he is ready for.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:22 am 
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Ultimately yes, but that doesn't mean people will want to partner with you.

ale_capone wrote:
Freedom...

I think it is up to Russ to decide what he is ready for.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:54 am 
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Perhaps...

Or they may admire his enthusiam, and positive can do attitude.

I prefer partners that are a pleasure to tour with as opposed to experianced people who aren't really fun to be around..


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:08 am 
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ale_capone wrote:
I prefer partners that are a pleasure to tour with as opposed to experianced people who aren't really fun to be around..


Me too, but I don't want enthusiastic partners who are more than willing to get in over there head either.

I'm not saying anyone should or should not partner with Russ or anybody else. My point is that Kyle was not being elitist and that we should take critique when it is due. Maybe I'm over sensitive because of kids and whatever else but when I get advise from my partners/friends I take it with open arms and thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Its interesting how TR's this summer are getting hijacked because of my posts. I'll do my best to stay as far away from shit talking as possible - that's really not what I mean to do!

Perhaps I did read Kyle's post in the wrong light. It was late at night and I was POOPED! Before I stick my head in shit, I will say that admire Mr. Miller on SO many levels. Not only is he a VERY accomplished splitboard mountaineer, he's a fantastic guy with a fantastic head on his shoulders. I wish companies would sponsor guys like him to a greater degree. But yes, in rereading his reply I do appreciate his sensitivity. None of us need to die here!

Back to the original TR: Inviting myself on someone's trip? Not so much.. This was a gesture of "I'm stoked as f*** on your climb and line and aspire to do the same". In all honesty, I really AM stoked to get out on a trip or two with you sometime. The timing just needs to be right.

I'm not going to lash out at anyone or sit here and defend my climbing resume... I just don't have the energy for that. I do think this is great opportunity however to dialog a little bit about mountain safety.

As Kyle said, too many people die in the mountains for preventable reasons. I don't think any of us are truly in the "newbie" category here; we all understand the risks, and strive to manage them. Sure, my snowboard has only been on my climbing pack for 2 seasons, but I've spent years walking on glaciers and have pulled myself and others out of crevasses. That shot of Jason's feet dangling in the Boston Glacier sends chills up my spine. I once rappelled 60 feet into a crack on Coleman Glacier, and Jesus dude, that is serious shit! Shots like that should be a reminder to all of us how delicate all this is..

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately, is that of all the climbing deaths that happen every year, many are very experienced people. I would have to say that one of the overwhelming factors that keeps popping up is accumulated fatigue and hypoglycemia. So many times have climbers died because they are simply too exhausted and under fed to make good decisions. I've been on trips where I've ran out of food and done things that are downright careless. Also, think back to Scott Fisher (Everest 1996) that guy died primarily because he ran out of gas - he just didn't have enough strength reserves to make it through that terrible storm. In reading biographies about his life before Everest 96', it becomes very apparent that he had NO idea how to pace himself, or even properly take care of himself back at home. He didn't know how to rest.. Accumulated life stress, under-nutrition, and no capacity to take time away from the mountains caught up to that guy in a big way. Experience is a critical element to being safe, but so is being well rested.

What's that quote again? "There are old climbers and bold climbers, but not too many old bold climbers." I think that's how it went..

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Nice post russ.

I would like note that I wasn't saying anyone in particular was not fun to tour with. All my partners are great, and I feel very fortunate to have met them.

risk and risk management are a whole differant topic. I will say I have offered to take Russ in over his head, and he respectfully declined.

I myself, like the deep end of the pool, just don't try and tell me I can't swim there. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Posts: 531
Russel:

I feel I owe you an apology for a number of reasons. First off, when I first started out, I did some things that I would never do now, and I think I've definitely been in over my head before, and frankly, no amount of anyone telling me I didn't have the skills or experience really stopped me, so on that note, it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Ale's right, no one likes being told they aren't ready for something, and really, that wasn't the issue. Only you are familiar with what you can and cannot do, mentally, physically, experience-level-wise, etc.

Most importantly though, as EcoBrad correctly sensed, I suppose this post and a few things you've said on my facebook wall did sound to me, as if you had invited yourself along on trips I had already planned with others, which of course, did sort of rub me the wrong way. It was my mistake to not give you the benefit of the doubt and realize that you were merely expressing your enthusiasm for the trips themselves as opposed to committing an unspoken backcountry feaux pas? (spelling on that? who knows.) Again, your enthusiasm and positive attitude, I feel, are some of your best attributes.

Anyway, as an experienced mountaineer, surely you realize that since I have almost no experience with you in the backcountry, I'd want to get to know you a little bit in a moderate backcountry setting before venturing out with you in a situation where trust between partners is really important. (I don't really count us doing the birthday tour with my girlfriend with her broken femur on her third backcountry experience, EVER, as the type of tour where you get to know how someone behaves in a stressful situation.) But you already get that, and I'm sorry for assuming that you would breach this obvious step.

Thank you all for righting me on this, and I will try to practice a little more humility.

-Kyle

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Buckner via the North face
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Oh Kyle, really no need for apologies man! It is amazing to me how proper communication is so key, in all types of relationships. From girlfriends to climbing partners...

I owe YOU an apology for taking your post the wrong way!

Internet forums have a way of bending the light, so to speak.

Oh hey, Ale Capone, I did want to thank you for your invite to attempt Liberty Ridge. After that Adams trip, I really did need rest and time out of the mountains - so it would have been way over my head! I think its good to think about 5000 feet of exposure below 50 degree slopes pretty carefully..

At any rate, thanks everybody for this little community we have!

If anybody sees my stolen red 161 Mojo with one blue and black Fuse binding, and some sketchy dude riding it, KICK HIS ASS!

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