Splitboard.com Forums

The World's first exclusive splitboard discussion forums






It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:33 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
I toyed with going up there Sunday, but I was solo so I went to the Blue Lake trailhead on Hwy. 20, went up behind Liberty bell. Snow softened up ok by noon, only have a few non-interesting photos-no riding pics. How was the approach up where you went? Enough snow up on Sahale arm for a June trip? Might have to squeeze it in.

_________________
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them (Frederick Douglass)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:48 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Bozeman/Seattle
There is enough snow up there for a june trip. The end of the road has not even melted.

It dosen't look like the weather will hold up for a return to the north cascades before we head back to montana next week. Sorry Sky.

Oh, and i know what you mean by unfinished bussiness.........Liberty Ridge


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:29 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Bend, OR
How the hell could you self arrest with that set-up? Not ripping your style, seems like you know what your doing. But how do you self arrest with one a tool in your other hand? For getting yourself out of an icy/dicey situation that's a really good approach. But falling and trying to self arrest looks like a nightmare, with stitches.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:59 pm
Posts: 43
Location: WA Backcountry
WOW. way to get after it. I need to get my a** in gear and get up to N. Cascades sometime soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 324
Location: NW/BC/Montana
I realize that it may not be the best set-up. However, I usually see self-arrest as being a last-ditch effort, where my chances of survival are less than 50-50 (otherwise I would be able to stop myself normally). In such a case, I would not care how ripped up I was, just whether I was alive or not.

It would be somewhat difficult to not get tangled in the 2nd tool while arresting with the first. I was trying to balance the desire for self-arrest capabilities with the desire for stabilization on ice. I would say that the ice stabilization would be most important since it would prevent one from falling into a situation where self-arrest would be necessary.

That said, this was my first time riding with two tools and am open to suggestions or critiques. I'm almost always riding with one or no tools, so this was an exception.

Thinking about it, it might be ideal to have the 2nd tool available to whip out when nearing ice, then stowing it for other times.

2 cents?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
nomad wrote:
2 cents?
I think that a single tool is the best option. You need to get pressure on the pick quickly, and the best way is body weight. One tool eliminates a split second spent choosing, which in turn means less acceleration till you stick it. You loose a fair amount of vert in any fall 'till you slow yourself down, even on less steep slopes. I've proven that to myself :oops: However I still am up in the air about which pick. I use a standard mountaineering style pick on mine, had a very experienced guy tell me this was my best choice.

_________________
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them (Frederick Douglass)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1622
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Having a way to stow it seems like the best option. It seems like whatever method you use, it would be useful to practice with it in a more controlled environment first... and it would probably be, um, "interesting" practicing self-arresting with the two-tool setup. :)

This seems like a market opportunity. Someone needs to invent a glove that has retractable whippet-like picks on each finger. It could have a voice-activated sensor that activates the claws on the words "Oh Shit!" Then just slam your hands into the slope and you're like spiderman!

Seriously, nice pics, sounds like some great trips. That pic dropping into the chute is so great! So was the landing somewhat soft or were you dropping 20' onto 3" of corn on hardpack?? :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:12 pm
Posts: 1598
Location: Now Oaktowntastic
I am definitely not a super experienced mountaineer but I am interested in the topic so here are my two cents...

I like that you hold the mountaineering axe by the head, rather than the shaft. I think that every time I've seen someone snowboarding with axe in hand, the person is holding it by the shaft. It makes more sense to me that you should hold the axe by the head and use the same self arrest technique that you would use if you fell while climbing. So thanks for that - I probably wouldn't have figured out that the head was the better option on my own. It could be that the 'handle-holding' snowboarders out there are using technical tools, but aren't mountaineering axes the tool of choice for self arrest?

Regarding two tools vs. one, I think that being able to arrest a fall is the primary reason to ride with an axe in hand and if you get a higher success rate with just the mountaineering axe in hand, then that's the way to go. If the technical tool only comes into play once you've come to a stop, maybe it is better to rig a way to stow it for easy access when you need it.

Just brainstorming...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1622
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
SanFrantastico wrote:
I like that you hold the mountaineering axe by the head, rather than the shaft. I think that every time I've seen someone snowboarding with axe in hand, the person is holding it by the shaft. It makes more sense to me that you should hold the axe by the head and use the same self arrest technique that you would use if you fell while climbing.

I'm no expert either, but I don't quite buy that argument. When you are climbing (assuming standard glacier travel, not actually ice climbing), you hold it on the head because you have to. You don't have the option of holding it on the shaft because that wouldn't be practical for self-belay. When you're riding, either is practical.

So the choice should be based on whatever works best when you're riding. It seems to me like holding it by the head you have more chance of it getting in the way since you have the shaft hanging down. Then again, I could see how it might make a heelside self-arrest more practical since you could get in at least a decent self-arrest position without having to roll over.

Maybe this discussion should move over to the original thread:

http://talk.splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2081


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:12 pm
Posts: 1598
Location: Now Oaktowntastic
Yeah, that's probably the right place for it, Jimw. I'm not sure how to move the discussion over... Is that something BCRider can do??

I totally agree with your earlier statement regarding a controlled environment. I'm sure a person could answer these questions by donating an afternoon to the cause on a slope with a safe runout.

I think I would prefer <porn_music> holding the head instead of the shaft </porn_music> basically because the pick is on the head and that's where the action is.

I think no matter what, you want to fall into self arrest position with the pick in one hand and the shaft in the other.

If you are initially holding the shaft a bunch of stuff could go wrong. You could freak out and swing the axe like a technical tool and either not get a good bite on the snow or lose your grip on the shaft. If you did think to swing the head into your other hand, it seems to me more difficult to catch the head and grip it well than it would be to catch the shaft. Finally, I think you could get better one-handed control of the pick if you are holding the head rather than the shaft, if it came down to it.

Maybe someone who has arrested a lot would know... I'm just speculating.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 8:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Posts: 203
Location: PNW
I expect the two axe thing would be far superior in situations where you end up essentially having to "downclimb" sections :shock:. For self arrest after a fall, I think that having an axe in each hand is a serious liability, but then so is falling...

In an actual fall, self arrest would have to consist of a combination of using your board edges to position yourself for self arrest (not trivial, as you will tend to fall head first) and then controlled use of a single iceaxe with both hands. The single axe lends simplicity and leverage (the two most critical things you would need in a fall).

_________________
Me llaman el desaparecido
que cuando llega ya se ha ido
volando vengo volando voy
de prisa de prisa rumbo perdido


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Seattle
The pathword ith:
DON'T FUCKIN' FALL!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:07 am
Posts: 620
Location: Montana
WWKD....(what would Koch do?)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ScottH and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group