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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:54 am 
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Location: Durango, CO.
split.therapy wrote:
I take part in the natural order of life. I hunt for food as my ancestors did before me. I'm Native American.


I don't have a horse in this race but I feel the need to call BS right here.

The rest of what you are saying has merit and I even agree with some of it but unless you are actually hunting animals with your bare hands you are not taking part in the natural order of things. Along the same line, unless you are flint mapping arrow heads and knife blades for use in the killing and dressing of the animals that you kill, you are not hunting like your ancestors before you by a long shot.

I don't point these thing out to detract from your arguement, I am merely speaking up because I believe comparring modern hunting practices ("glassing from ridgelines", using high powered rifles or high powered compound bows and modern packing gear) to the practices of your ancestors does them an injustice. Your ancestors were locked into a life and death struggle every time a hunting party engaged an animal, whether it be starvation if they couldn't achieve a kill or an attack and mauling from the animal.

Hunters that hunt for food and not sport are, in my opinion, very skilled and commendable humans. Congratulations on being a member of that class.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:18 am 
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Posts: 478
Location: Teton Valley, ID.
Agreed, but animals that die/died from those ancient tools suffered long and agonizing deaths. I can kill with less suffering using a rifle than even with a compound bow. So I don't hunt with a bow. I am a highly trained marksman. I diligently practice and maintain those skills year round. "Shooting is a perishable skill." I practice precise round placement. Minimal to no suffering on the animals.This allows me the luxury of being selective. I look for animals whose loss will have less impact on future generations, ie. barren cow elk, elk calf with a twin, whitetail deer (which are an invasive species here in Idaho), a large mule deer buck with small antlers (old and no longer competing for breeding). My ancestors didn't have that luxury. They killed what they saw. Binocs and spotting scopes allow me to make these judgments with minimal invasiveness to the animals. They don't waste time and calories fleeing from me.

There is less waste of the animal because I have modern knives for dressing and skinning, saws for quartering, ropes for hanging quarters out of the reach of grizzlies and pack frames for carrying.
I don't even leave a gut pile. I feed the organs to my dogs.

If our country goes into a depression, which it looks like we are, I will need those skills and tools to feed those who rely on me. It will be a life and death struggle.

Before this comes up, I don't hoot and cheer when I make a kill. I take no pleasure in killing. I often feel sad and very grateful. I don't fish if it is "Catch & Release". I wouldn't want someone dragging me kicking and screaming out of my home with a hook in my mouth for their pleasure and entertainment.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:55 pm
Posts: 925
Location: socal
f**king wah! Life isn't fair...I think most of us know this by now. I'm sure we do lots of jacked up things the other side of the world thinks is horrible

I picked up a predator hunting magazine...Coyote hunting is supposedly one of the top sport hunting now a days. They actually have 24 hour call/hunt contests. Since wolves were nearly wiped out coyotes have taken over (according to the mag), some people don't like them taking their livestock, etc.

Not to burst Tex's bubble but Texas ranks pretty high in Coyote hunting too.

I'd much rather eat hunted wild game than some shit sack cow that was only fed corn. The way cows are bred here for eating is disgusting. I enjoy meat but don't need it every meal.

I agree that today's hunting tools are a much better practice of taking game if that is your choice. less pain, less waste. I doubt our ancestors stopped trying to make newer arrow heads because the first one killed something.

:twocents: not that it matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:12 am 
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Posts: 478
Location: Teton Valley, ID.
mtnrider wrote:
Not to burst Tex's bubble but Texas ranks pretty high in Coyote hunting too.
IMO-Texas has some of the most deplorable hunting regs there are.
You are allowed to spotlight hunt predators and varmints at night. You are allowed to hunt deer over automated feeders from a blind. You are allowed to hunt from a vehicle with an elevated bleacher seat basically.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:15 pm
Posts: 2583
Location: san diego CA
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/season/

Above are the hunting regulations for the state of Texas
read up

Please read story #5 below , it will tell you what happens when you get caught hunting at night with a spotlight in texas

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/r ... =20080218c

Texas has some very strict and regulated game laws. I do know that the Deer heard is managed by the State fish and game and Texas A and M university. Permits are given out county by county which allows buck permits, doe permits, or buck only.

right now the only animal I know you can kill all you want of with no bag limit and no seasonis fellar hogs


I think you have your own mental Version of Texas and peopkle from texas which is really all this boils down to


I will tell you I have an opion on people who shoot black bear and coyote

Its the same as your about people who put animals in cages.

And your long, romantic Harlqin novel type discription of the way you hunt doesnt impress me.
I grew up around hunters and as long as its legal I have no bitch.

And Im done with this
Im going splitboarding

I will be at scrubfest, maybe we can sit down over a beer , glass of coke or bong load and converse more.
I can explain to you the road have traveled to get to my opion and you can tell me about how you got to yours


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:51 am 
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Wow, this thread is actually getting good now even though it's completely derailed.

There are lots of reasons people hunt and we all have opinions on those different reasons. There is nothing wrong w/ enjoying hunting as it gives us a connection to "living off the land" even though it is entirely unnecessary for us in this day and age. I primarily enjoyed hunting when I was younger strictly for the stalking aspect of it and the exhilarating feeling one gets when confronting a wild animal in the the wild. There is no need to justify to people that you use the whole animal or are hunting in a more "native" way than the next guy. Some people will never understand. They see killing an animal as killing an animal. It's up to the hunter to justify it to himself why he does it. That's all that matters. This is the reason I stopped hunting. Because I can't justify it. Any urge I have to hunt right now would be for "sport" and the thrill of the stalk, but by no means do I need the meat. I don't even like steak for the most part. However, I am considering buying a rifle and taking up mule deer/elk hunting again because I want that connection to the earth (god that sounds too hippie) and that primal feeling that hunting gives me. Plus, I have close friends I can share the meat w/.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:03 pm 
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Location: Orange County, California
Dear Split.Therapy,
what pissed me off earlier is not the fact that you are a hunter, it was the way you answered Tex justified question. If you want respect for your (obviously strong) opion about animals in cages, then you have to give respect for other peoples opions about killing black bears! And telling someone who's asking, "because they taste awesome" is a pretty provoking answer in my humble opion.
Now you made up for it a little with your follow up's, that's how you should've had explained yourself right away.
Here is a guy who is just stoked to see some tigers close up and you start this whole rant, turns out you kill black bears and tons of other wildlife and you expect people to understand? Doesn't work that way!

To come back to the topic: I'm a vegetarian, 14 years and counting. Obviously I have very different beliefs from yours. And I don't want this to turn in a big discussion, because it's not gonna change either one of us. I plain and simple don't want animals killed for me in any way! And I don't want them in cages either! I respect where you are coming from and how you hunt etc. But I don't know man, hunting in this day and age? If you think you have the right then so should I and everybody else, right?
Boom, Black Bear extinct! Tiger in a cage, still there! As sad at it is!

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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:30 am
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Location: Mendham, NJ
My cats breath smells like cat food.

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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 740
Location: St. Croix Falls, WI
Did Tex say have a discussion over a bong load :doobie: ??

Here's how that conversation would go. "Maaaaan, Like you know... here's how it breaks down......long pause........... Ummm... the thing is... aaaaaaaaaaah... shit my turn in the rotation.. eeeeeere...aaaaaaaaaaah"

Yeah, this thread has gone crazy, but we all have our opinions... but, you know what... we share a common bond.. we like to splitboard.

I stopped hunting for years because I got disgusted in how animals were treated, as well as how easy fat people choose to hunt.

I've started hunting again, but I only take headshots. If I miss.. then nothing to eat.

But, it's the stories I hear about ignorance towards other creatures out there that pisses me. Like this for instance.. I was in a store up in far northern part of Minnesota, and I heard this conversation. "so, did you get a deer this year?"... "nope, too many wolves" "well maybe they should open a season on them" ...

I was so furious I wanted to beat the living shit out of those 2 idiots... yeah, you lazy f*cks can't get a deer because one didn't walk underneath your stand, and those damn wolves... jeeez who do they think they are to eat.

Human ignorance to the natural order of the other living creatures, and humanity towards others is one thing that stirs big time rage in me. Other than that I'm a mellow fellow... weed helps :doobie:

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"Out of the Indian approach to life there came a great freedom, an intense and absorbing respect for life, enriching faith in a supreme power, honesty, generosity, and brotherhood"

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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:57 pm
Posts: 4958
Location: California
I'm moving this thread to the Outta Bounds forum....

Shoulda been posted there in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:34 am
Posts: 478
Location: Teton Valley, ID.
TEX wrote:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/season/

Above are the hunting regulations for the state of Texas
read up

Read up now you read up
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publication ... ing/means/
MEANS AND METHODS
Fur-bearing animals may be legally taken with firearms; foothold, conibear style, live or box traps; dogs; snares; lawful archery equipment; electronic or hand-held calls; artificial light; or by falconry except as prohibited below.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:34 am
Posts: 478
Location: Teton Valley, ID.
split.therapy wrote:
Berry fed black bear is better than the best pork you have ever had.

Schwalbster, Here is my post. I did not write "because they taste awesome" You mis-quoted me 100%. Now why would I want to to kill an animal for food if it did not taste good? If I did not like the taste of the meat I would not spend the time and energy to hunt and kill it. I would not waste it's life! Wild game is a superior form of nutrition! It's about not eating artificial hormones, anti-biotics, not supporting the factory farm industry and so many other reasons. I'm not bullshitting any of this. I'm not trying to justify my hunting. I am giving my side of the situation.

Black Bears are far from going extinct.

I believe in equanimity which means all things are equal. So as a vegetarian you are killing plants for food. Plants die for sustenance same as animals. No different than I. Death begets life. I see it as the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Seen a Tiger
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:55 pm
Posts: 925
Location: socal
schwalbster wrote:
But I don't know man, hunting in this day and age? If you think you have the right then so should I and everybody else, right?
Boom, Black Bear extinct! Tiger in a cage, still there! As sad at it is!


You do have the right, you choose not to so BAM not extinct.
what does today's day and age have anything to do w/ it? I know lots of people who live in the back woods, and don't like this day and age.
Most people won't have the stomach to shoot something, that alone will stop most.
Make them clean the animal from their shot...there goes another pretty large percentage.

Most people are too lazy to hunt anyways. You also don't get something every season either...

heading out w/ the machine gun now to slay some ground squirrels...

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