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 Post subject: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:51 pm 
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A very rational, educational and thorough video for those trying to detox from the Al Gore kool-aid:


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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:24 pm 
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Just apply game theory... here it is in a nutshell.



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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Posting that video proves you didn't watch the video and applying "game theory/4 boxes with smiley faces" doesn't work when you don't factor in faulty science and economic motives. It's clever though.

I have a hole in the sand I can rent for your head. PM me for details.

I guess the author of my video is correct in assuming that MMGW advocates have taken the cue of Al Gore in refusing to debate and just blindly assume their cause is infallible. And tell me why does that guy in the video only refer to "climate change" and never even mention the word "global warming"?
Zee, where have you gotten you information on global warming? Have you or anyone who doesn't question the science ever even tried to look at an alternative scientific viewpoint objectively? (disclaimer: not once in this post did I say the earth hasn't warmed up nor man doesn't have an effect on warming in recent history. And not I'm not a republican or a member of any tea/coffee/yerba matte parties.)


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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:43 am 
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BGnight wrote:
(disclaimer: not once in this post did I say the earth hasn't warmed up nor man doesn't have an effect on warming in recent history. And not I'm not a republican or a member of any tea/coffee/yerba matte parties.)

So I guess this means us kooks can disregard your post title as a fishing expedition and get back to our fiendish plot to stifle righteousness, freedom and manifest destiny :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:30 am 
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BGnight wrote:
Posting that video proves you didn't watch the video and applying "game theory/4 boxes with smiley faces" doesn't work when you don't factor in faulty science and economic motives. It's clever though.

I have a hole in the sand I can rent for your head. PM me for details.

I guess the author of my video is correct in assuming that MMGW advocates have taken the cue of Al Gore in refusing to debate and just blindly assume their cause is infallible. And tell me why does that guy in the video only refer to "climate change" and never even mention the word "global warming"?
Zee, where have you gotten you information on global warming? Have you or anyone who doesn't question the science ever even tried to look at an alternative scientific viewpoint objectively? (disclaimer: not once in this post did I say the earth hasn't warmed up nor man doesn't have an effect on warming in recent history. And not I'm not a republican or a member of any tea/coffee/yerba matte parties.)


Whatever dude...

I'm here to talk about splitboarding.


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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:37 am 
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Really good presentation of factual refutation. The only problem with lengthy factual arguments is that they rarely trump emotionally charged ideology.

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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:17 am 
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So there is definitely substance to some of the arguments, but with any science one must always interpret the results in the appropriate context with the necessary caveats. This applies to both sides of the argument.

It all boils down to the fact that one needs to become adequately informed to make a decision on the matter and shouldn't be influenced by biased entities to form a personal opinion. Al Gore nor this guy are completely correct.

Personally, I feel there is a definite need to better understand the feedback loops. But unfortunately, we should probably begin to take action before we have a truly quantitative understanding of these loops. If you have issues with CO2, then write your politicians to tell them to focus on lower hanging fruit such as black carbon and halocarbons that can be far easier addressed with less fiscal impact.

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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:42 am 
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96, I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm not taking this guys POV as gospel. I'm just showing a very well thought out, educated viewpoint that can help wake people up to the true motives behind Cap and Trade type scams.

The main point I'm trying to get across is the same point the author makes at the end of the video that the MMcatastrophicGW theory, with it's questionable science and motives, has taken the steam out of all the real and proven environmental causes that we need to be addressing. People need to realize demonizing carbon dioxide is the same as demonizing water or oxygen. The fact the EPA has listed it as a pollutant should outrage people with it's insanity.

It's become such an ingrained paradigm in so many people (mostly already left leaning, environmentally conscious people) that global warming (in the Al Gore doomsday scenario) is unfolding when it's clear it's not. In fact, these people get so defensive when you even hint at the science being wrong that they immediately dismiss you as a right winger or conspiracy whacko without even entertaining an alternative persepective.


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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:11 pm 
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BG, I've read most of your global warming conspiracy tirades, and the common thread through out seems to be that you disparage believer folks for their beliefs/opinions, and regard them as being fools/kool-aid drinkers/and whatever else. See here for todays example:

Quote:
I have a hole in the sand I can rent for your head. PM me for details.


The same could be said of you; that you've drunk the denial kool-aid by the gallons. You could be disparaged too as a fool/kool-aid drinker/whatever for only seeing your side.

Quote:
Factual information never hurt anyone!

Let's all agree that the strength of your facts are only as strong as the source. It's well documented by both sides of the debate, there are facts to support both sides.
And lets all agree that both sides of the arguement have political/ideological/financial agendas, believers and deniers equally. Sometimes you seem to imply that only the MMGW believers are the only ones with an agenda, and as well, you imply that the deniers only bring the truth. Most certainly the deniers have their own agenda, as best exemplified by the fossil fuels industries.

What irritates me is that you don't seem to consider the believer's side of the debate. A well informed opinion considers all sources of information.
And thanks for your video, I will add that to my already massive steaming pile of information to form my ongoing opinion. And for the record I am on the fence in this whole debate.

Your snowboarding speaks for itself. Let's get back to the stoke.

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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:57 pm 
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for those wishing to be notified of advancing climate science, both within peer-reviewed literature and popular press, you can sign up for a climate change listserv here

however, beware it's a lot of information to sift through...

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
163W Jones Solution, Phantom Alphas, Dynafit TLT5
162 Furberg


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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:16 pm 
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I think the point is moot. It really doesn't matter if our grandchildren won't have any snow to ride on in 50 years because at the rate this country is piling on debt, they will be impovershed and enslaved from birth to death. :nononno:

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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:33 pm 
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dude_reino wrote:
I think the point is moot. It really doesn't matter if our grandchildren won't have any snow to ride on in 50 years because at the rate this country is piling on debt, they will be impovershed and enslaved from birth to death. :nononno:


On this note, when (not if) China (who holds most US debt) calls in the loan, what can we expect the reaction to be? I suspect it will be time to put the world largest military machine to use and erase said debt by force... Yes? No?

China is not playing fair as an economic citizen of the world, they need to float their currency. Their refusal to do so makes their goods substantially cheaper than they should be. What baffles me is that we (Canada, US, Europe) continue to buy from them despite their unfair advantage.

Put a 50% tariff on all Chinese goods, and watch stuff magically start being produced in North America/Europe again. Certain 'capitalists' will say that a tariff goes against the principles of a free market. To this I would argue that not letting your currency float is a larger violation of these principles.

PS. Cap and Trade is a stupid idea, it will not reduce emissions, rather it will line the pockets of those that facilitate the transactions and produce little in the way of economic/environmental/social benefit... you know, the financial institutions that created the near economic collapse of 2008.


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 Post subject: Re: I love carbon dioxide and support climate change.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Zee wrote:
dude_reino wrote:
I think the point is moot. It really doesn't matter if our grandchildren won't have any snow to ride on in 50 years because at the rate this country is piling on debt, they will be impovershed and enslaved from birth to death. :nononno:


On this note, when (not if) China (who holds most US debt) calls in the loan, what can we expect the reaction to be? I suspect it will be time to put the world largest military machine to use and erase said debt by force... Yes? No?


Easy: sell California to them :wink:

Zee wrote:
China is not playing fair as an economic citizen of the world, they need to float their currency. Their refusal to do so makes their goods substantially cheaper than they should be. What baffles me is that we (Canada, US, Europe) continue to buy from them despite their unfair advantage.

Put a 50% tariff on all Chinese goods, and watch stuff magically start being produced in North America/Europe again. Certain 'capitalists' will say that a tariff goes against the principles of a free market. To this I would argue that not letting your currency float is a larger violation of these principles.


I have been labeled as a 'capitalists whackjob', but I'm all for a tariff. The words 'imposts' and 'excises' are printed right in the Constitution, so its a no-brainer. Even quick web searches for quotes by both Hamilton and Jefferson reveals that the founders heavily preferred duties instead of income taxes.

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