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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:31 pm 
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jimw wrote:
An example of the slippage is at 3:15, though the helmet cam doesn't give the best angle. I jump turn to heelside, and slip out for a bit.


Looking back again at your (awesome) video footage, and in light of comments here, I guess the idea would have been to carve the turn more, instead of the jump directly from toe to heel. If you had been able to drop into heelside with more of a carve, you might have gotten better edge penetration and tracking, and stayed more in control.

Come to think of it the last time I had a long slip, I had done almost exactly what you did (minus the bergshcrund--that came later, and that's a different story...).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:11 am 
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Zach wrote:
Sit down farther into the turn.... bend more at the knees with your weight centered over the board. Your ass should be over your heelside edge, if not a little past it.

Thanks for the comment. I've found this to be true as well. I alluded to this earlier when mentioning that bending my knees more than usual helps, but I didn't mention the rest of the position which is as you describe.
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You can tell that you're bending at your waist instead of at your knees, in the video, because you flail your hands out in front of you to try and balance.

The helmet cam angle lies. :) I'm not bending at the waist. Here's the breakdown. At 3:17, I jump turn to heelside. BTW the slope angle here is somewhere around 50. As I land heelside, I slip out as I try to get purchase. This point is the whole crux of this discussion for me. Anyway, then I start sliding with my left hand dragging behind me trying to push my ass back off the slope, and the right hand "flails" in front for a moment, which is typical when you slip out or overrotate a turn in that direction. Now we're at about 3:19 and the "sliding=bad" text comes on. Right now I've still got the edge in the snow but because I'm still almost sitting down and trying to correct that I'm not really slowing down. About 3 seconds later the right hand comes back in front as I go through the choke, and I get it back together, and then you see the hands again - only this isn't flailing, I'm actually turning toeside at this point.

It's hard to get this from the footage from that angle. I guess my point is I get what you're saying, but I don't think that was the culprit in this case.

huevon wrote:
I guess the idea would have been to carve the turn more, instead of the jump directly from toe to heel. If you had been able to drop into heelside with more of a carve, you might have gotten better edge penetration and tracking, and stayed more in control.

Agreed, but the crux I guess is the "if you had been able" part. I guess in that situation I felt that the amount of additional acceleration I would have gotten from doing more of a carve-type turn initiation vs. jumping would have been such that I would have been going too fast to keep it in control (of course in this case the jump turn didn't fare so well either! :))

Let me refine the question a bit. Suppose you're making a heelside jump turn in a no-fall zone, and you can't straightline it or otherwise open up full carves. You need the jump turn for control. Example is the footage of bcrider mentioned above. What are the keys to avoiding slipping out on the heelside jump turn in that case?

(Obviously we could argue whether or not it is "necessary" to make jump turns in certain situations... but my point is that it's obviously possible, and certain people seem to do it better than others, and I want to get better at it.)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:22 am 
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jimw sometimes when I would hit up a resort we would lap big moguls just for the hell of it. It did seem to help fine-tune my jump-turning technique, as that was the only way I could get down. It was pretty exhausting though.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:48 pm 
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jimw,
it looks to me like your cheating your turn on the heelside. jump turning or carving it you still need to follow through. by this i mean to keep your head and shoulders over your front leg and your arms tucked in. i think a lot of people start to swing their arms and this redistributes the weight over the board causing one to loose their edge. the steeper it gets the more precise one needs to be, thus more careful with arms swinging due to how much easier/faster it is to loose edge contact. hope this makes sense, i do not think it's the boots
cool video, i shit myself when you fell!!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:51 pm 
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Thanks for the ideas. I think I know what you're talking about. The video is kind of a bad example because you can't really see what I'm doing. Some of that arm swinging in there is because I've already slipped out and trying to regain control, but some could certainly be what you're talking about too. I think maybe your suggestion could also be related to not keeping enough weight forward over the board, seems to be an easy mistake on the steeps. I'll try to keep the follow through in mind next time.

Any more ideas? Keep 'em coming! :)


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