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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:16 pm 
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buell wrote:
barrows wrote:
Great post Buell. Glad to hear the F boots are working for you. If I was in the market for new boots I would almost certainly be going with the F-3.
RE:
buell wrote:
I consider flex in the binding system important. I ride F2 alpine binding toe and heel pieces direct mounted to the Voile slider. They allow more lateral flex than the Cateks that Barrows uses or the Bombers but less lateral flex than the Voiles.

I hear ya, but with the (extensive) mods I have done to to Zzero 3s I now get so much medial/lateral flex out of the boot itself that I no longer need (or want) the binding/boot interface to flex. You are right, the Cateks do not allow for much movement with their very thick bales. I have Burton raceplate toe and heel pieces as well, with thinner bales. The Burtons are also a little lower to the plate. I am trying to get a custom slider plate built, which will allow me to drill a mounting hole pattern for the Burton toe/heel which will allow for adjustment, will report back on this if/when it comes to fruition.


I spoke with Scarpa the other day and the F3s are discontinued. I guess the Terminator had too much overlap with it. Unless a good ride mode can be figured out for the F1s, I do not consider them as good of an option for splitting as the F3s due to the walk / ski mechanism design.

In the alpine hardboot (carving on groomers) world there is a constant discussion of flex in the binding verses flex in the boot. For alpine bindings I have tried stiff (Bomber and Catek) and soft (F2, Burtons are soft as well but I have not tried them) and am firmly in the softer binding camp. I think rider weight could play a big part of one's preference because a heavier rider can (will) get more flex from all parts of the boot / binding system. I am a lightweight at 145 pounds.


Yeah, your weight could be a factor for sure. I am around 170-175 most of the time. Too bad about the F-3, I suspect that the new Maestrale will be the replacement for skiers. I might to find a closeout F-3 now...

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
barrows wrote:
Too bad about the F-3, I suspect that the new Maestrale will be the replacement for skiers. I might to find a closeout F-3 now...


Scarpa said it was because the F3 was too close to the Terminator X. Which is an NTN boot and looks pretty similar to me.

The F3 comes up quite often on http://www.tramdock.com for about $350. Somewhere else might have it too.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA/Ashland, OR
libtechsplit wrote:
i broke out the digi scale the other day, and ive been compiling some weight data from various websites.

scarpa f1 - 1350g
scarpa f3 - 1470g
scarpa spirit 3 - 1760g

my old vans Daniel Franks - 1190g
Spark fuses' - 980g

soft boots and sparks = 2170g (just one example obviously)

i havent found the weight of a dynafit toe piece yet, anybody know that?

a little fuel for the fire, so to speak


Per the wildsnow website, 418g for the 08/09 toe and heel pieces without brakes (which you wouldn't use on a board obv.) or screws (which are probably a few grams.

Barrows did some extensive research on weights here.

I'd actually love to hear what some of you guys have for total board weight? My 08/09 Mojo and Igntion 2s was a bit under 14 lbs if I remember correctly, and my 2009/2010 MojoRX/Fuse setup is 12.5 lbs.

Buell, well I guess I've got yet another reason to make sure we hook up in OR ASAP! How about 31/1st? Anything worth doing? If nothing else, I'd like to get up to Hood just to clean the rust off of the edges!

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
email sent jbay.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Location: Wasatch
i'm currently on some scarpa magix boots and voile mtn plates. however i just picked some catek pieces and am working on a modded plate binding. i'm not sure of the exact weight but i'm guessing switching to hardboots took a 1/2-1lbs at least off my full setup. I currently am riding a 2008 voile mojo 161 and at this point is the best split set up i've had. it out performs my softboot setup in all conditions with the exception of narrow, icy exits down skin or snowmobile tracks. I have ridden everything from 4 foot deep powder days in the wasatch to icy boilerplate in the sierras.

in some ways I agree with Utah's comment(not saying you are closed minded jbay), but if you wanna do hardboots i suggest just biting the bullet and buying some. i lurked websites and tried to get info from a lot of sources, but none of it really helped me. I just picked up the first pair of cheap 3 buckle boots i found and i haven't looked back yet. i think my tally for this season was hardboots: 80 softboots: 1

oh and russman:

russman wrote:
When I see a hardbooter charge 50 degree spines seamlessly and with the same style and power as with "their" :wink: softboot setup, I will start to think more seriously. As for weight comparisons between a strap setup and plate setups, once again, anything is possible with innovation.


What happens if i "charge" a 50 degree spine in a pair of hot pink ski boots, waterski bindings, and the first voile model(you know the gay looking purple one with the 1" gap in the middle), will you trade in all your sicky sweet new karakorum, jones, and "other brand of the moment" gear?

once again i would like to point out that it is the riders skill, not the gear that is most important. gear can enhance the experience and make things easier than they were before, but it doesn't make you a "better" rider. for example my slow ass is marginally faster on the skin track with hardboots then sparks/softboots due to a little reduced weight. but there are still plenty of people on slider tracks/bindings that could spin laps around me(made painfully clear to me at the Powderkeg this year).

if there is a direction that innovation should take i think it should be that of the hardboot.
anyway that's my :twocents:

is it November yet....

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:22 pm 
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sorry if my post was a little bit of derailment and was a tad too focused on the softboot vs hardboot debate

a little more info on my hardboot setup.

i ride with the boot not super tight as i find it is just too much power for the style of riding and the terrain i like. you can achieve a "Surfy" feel by cranking everything down and then backing off just a little. also the mtn plates develop a little slop after heavy use which sounds bad, but really doesn't affect the ride. in fact i prefer the feeling of my board now, i guess you could say the boots and bindings are "broken in". it will be interesting after i get the catek's up and running to see if i even like how tight they are. my experience could be entirely condition dependent on the fact that i ride powder in the wasatch 90% of the time, because i found myself cranking the boots down a lot more when was in the sierras.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:18 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback WS. Are your boots modded at all? What features should I look out for/avoid if I want to perform some of the more crucial mods? (I've heard a lot of reference to what mod works on what walk mode mechanism etc..)

Regarding the direction of innovation...well it's probably going to follow the money.

I'm curious...am I the only softbooter who tried hardboots and went back because I just couldn't get the setup dialed?

Buell, got the email man, I'll hit ya back tonight or tomorrow--still trying to get the schedule worked out.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:10 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
wasatch surf wrote:
i ride with the boot not super tight as i find it is just too much power for the style of riding and the terrain i like. you can achieve a "Surfy" feel by cranking everything down and then backing off just a little.........my experience could be entirely condition dependent on the fact that i ride powder in the wasatch 90% of the time, because i found myself cranking the boots down a lot more when was in the sierras.


That is a good point. A lot has been discussed about boot mods, but buckle tightness has a big effect on ride and power over the board. Depending on the day and the conditions, I ride with my upper cuff buckles from tight to pretty loose. The difference is quite significant.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:34 pm 
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After seeing that Bomber has added some lateral flex for this season, I decide to search for three buckle HB's and I lucked out. I found a demo pair of Scarpa F3's for $240! :shock: Guess I'll be trying the ol' fruity boots on the snurf deck this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:31 pm 
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A little more info here: http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9038.

I will definitely be trying a pair too. I have ridden the alpine version of the Sidewinder and this could be great for AT boot splitboarders.

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:19 am 
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your binding is mounted 180° wrong.... ore a must for dynafit too pice on board. some time a crash with slider pin - on a wide stand - on dinafit too pice.
burton

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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:11 am 
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or he likes to crip walk when he skins....


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setups even softbooters will love
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:29 pm 
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jbaysurfer wrote:
I'm curious...am I the only softbooter who tried hardboots and went back because I just couldn't get the setup dialed?


No. I had some pretty stiff Denali TT's that other than changing buckle tightness I didnt mod them at all (with voile mtn plates). I would say I didnt try hard enough to get them dialed in before I said F it and got some ignitions. I would consider trying the set up again but am reluctant to drop the coin on new boots. (use the Denali's for skiing now) I would rather buy a new split.

edit to add: also, what are you guys getting as far as ride height? Maybe it was my setup with the beefy vibram soles, but I felt I was way too high off the deck.

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