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 Post subject: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Location: Nelson, British Columbia.
Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database.

I’m working on a project for a BSc.Honors degree at the University of Fraser Valley that entails the building of a geo-database for the backcountry area surrounding the Mt. Baker Ski Area. It will include Georeferenced Maps, ski ascent/descent route data, digital elevation and topographic models, panchromatic images, and aerial and oblique photographs. It will cover the areas around Shuskan Arm, Table Mountain, Bagley/Chain Lakes, Ptarmigan Ridge, Lake Ann, Kulshan Ridge, Mt. Herman etc.

A lot of the work will be done by generating the maps using ArcGIS in the lab at the University, but I will also be spending a ton of time out in the field collecting data and taking photographs. I really need to partner up with others for the field work. All that will be involved is touring and riding killer terrain, and maybe waiting around a few minutes here and there while I take locations with a GPS and take photos.

The end results of the project will be placed on a open sourced database that anyone can use for trip planning and navigation. There will be no commercial use of the data and it will be available to anyone through the internet.

If anyone is interested in helping out with GIS expertise or who just wants to tag along for the ride I’d be happy to have you along. I’m going to be out in the field Saturday to Tuesday starting in January. Just send me a personal message.

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"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds."~ Edward Abbey

Trevor Campbell
http://www.mightybighornmaps.com


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Location: PDX
awesome, just what the area needs: more people, and more people who know the good spots....killer idea...

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"take it easy, if its easy take it twice..."


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Location: Nelson, British Columbia.
jack wrote:
awesome, just what the area needs: more people, and more people who know the good spots....killer idea...


Yeah, I hear that sort of criticism all the time. It's bunk really, it takes a whole lot more than a map to get out into the backcountry. What it does is makes it safer for those of us who have the skills and abilty to get out there.

The last database I created was for private interest, it was turned into a guidebook...sold a grand total of 200 copies - not exactly contributing to throngs of people!

_________________
"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds."~ Edward Abbey

Trevor Campbell
http://www.mightybighornmaps.com


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Location: PDX
the mighty bighorn wrote:
Yeah, I hear that sort of criticism all the time.


then maybe you should go ahead and take a hint and not do this.


the mighty bighorn wrote:
It's bunk really, it takes a whole lot more than a map to get out into the backcountry. What it does is makes it safer for those of us who have the skills and abilty to get out there.


actually, it makes it that much easier for the retards to get out there, if the website tells them exactly what they need to do. and puts legit users in more danger when they ski above you and generally act like idiots and do unsafe shit.

the mighty bighorn wrote:
The last database I created was for private interest, it was turned into a guidebook...sold a grand total of 200 copies - not exactly contributing to throngs of people!


200 more people in that area would be way to many.

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"take it easy, if its easy take it twice..."


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:03 am 
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Posts: 124
Location: San Juan Islands, WA
There was a death just outside the Blueberry catrack on Sunday, the wife (on snowshoes) fell and slid 20', when she got back to where her husband was he was no longer there. He was found a day later upside down under 18" of snow, They think he was standing on a cornice and it broke loose.
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/sto ... _Container
No avy gear and very little backcountry experience in whiteout conditions


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:40 am 
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Posts: 2388
Location: California
I think these arguments are complete bullshit!!!! What, you've never looked at a USGS map before? The KORE folks back in the day prolly complained that little sniveling gravity junkies will now ski above our meadow skipping hot spots. The availability of maps/information about safety is not a bad thing. Someone who's interested in back country/side country is going to go based on decisions made before they ever get to bighorns map.

I scoff at people that bitch and moan about the backcountry being crowded (except maybe the Wasatch since it's relatively small, allows helis and is close to so many people). There are so many options that if your bummed by the crowds its your fault for selecting such a shitty tour.

I appreciate your work, Bighorn, and would love to head out with you if I lived in the area.



jack wrote:
the mighty bighorn wrote:
Yeah, I hear that sort of criticism all the time.


then maybe you should go ahead and take a hint and not do this.


the mighty bighorn wrote:
It's bunk really, it takes a whole lot more than a map to get out into the backcountry. What it does is makes it safer for those of us who have the skills and abilty to get out there.


actually, it makes it that much easier for the retards to get out there, if the website tells them exactly what they need to do. and puts legit users in more danger when they ski above you and generally act like idiots and do unsafe shit.

the mighty bighorn wrote:
The last database I created was for private interest, it was turned into a guidebook...sold a grand total of 200 copies - not exactly contributing to throngs of people!


200 more people in that area would be way to many.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Vail, Co
I ride in an overcrowded, uneducated, slackcountry area and I find that most people who venture in this area are not going online to scope the terrain first via maps.

They are usually just following my tracks.

The people who check maps are usually the educated riders or the ones who check what the need to do to be in the area. Not all but definitely the majority.

And my guess would be that the 200 guide books sold went to people who try to use the area safely. Not really bringing in more people.

But maybe if you asked him he could put the number of incidents in the area, what you need to be there, a link to a few accidents as well as the avalanche forecast, and a few other links like that. So anyone who uses this site realizes that they are getting into.

Oh and I would help you but I don't live there. But cool idea. Tell me if you come to CO


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:56 am 
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Location: Nelson, British Columbia.
jack wrote:
the mighty bighorn wrote:
Yeah, I hear that sort of criticism all the time.


then maybe you should go ahead and take a hint and not do this.


the mighty bighorn wrote:
It's bunk really, it takes a whole lot more than a map to get out into the backcountry. What it does is makes it safer for those of us who have the skills and abilty to get out there.


actually, it makes it that much easier for the retards to get out there, if the website tells them exactly what they need to do. and puts legit users in more danger when they ski above you and generally act like idiots and do unsafe shit.

the mighty bighorn wrote:
The last database I created was for private interest, it was turned into a guidebook...sold a grand total of 200 copies - not exactly contributing to throngs of people!


200 more people in that area would be way to many.


Aside from the sour criticism of a few, by far I receive thanks and praise for the work I do. Most of the poopy pants criticism comes from those who’ve contributed very little to the sport. Of the people who do dumb things in the backcountry, I doubt few of them had checked a database or were carrying maps with them. As far as Baker goes, I had my diapers changed in that lodge, been going there for 33 years now.

Why don’t you demand that Voile stop making splitboard components, far too many people are using them now. Or Sparks bindings, who do they think they are being progressive (sarcasm).

I spent the last 15 years of my life pursuing snowboarding, and the past four as an Honors student in University. I am physically strong, mentally capable, and very tenacious….I will see this through, even if I’ve got to solo every field excursion.

_________________
"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds."~ Edward Abbey

Trevor Campbell
http://www.mightybighornmaps.com


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:50 am
Posts: 328
Location: hippy pow turns
I run both sides of this argument depending on whats being put out there. and sure we had a good old bitch session around a bottle of whiskey in the parking lot the other day about how crowded the local hot spot was. most of it came down to a couple of us jumping the gun, and some one dragging along an uninvited noob which kept us out of the hard the reach lines.

I'm willing to bet that most of the people there that day heard about the place on some web forum and did just enough research to make sure there were on the right road then followed the nearest skin track.

on line mapping, shit google earth has made the world a very small place, but most people have yet to figure out how to put it to use. the more info I have at my fingertips, the less people i'm going to see in the back country...

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Vail, Co
Quote:
I'm willing to bet that most of the people there that day heard about the place on some web forum and did just enough research to make sure there were on the right road then followed the nearest skin track.


Ya there are definetly some but I bet more people are heading into your stashes because of this...

Quote:
and some one dragging along an uninvited noob which kept us out of the hard the reach lines.


So he will grab a friend to go next time and his friend will grab a friend and another and another. More people probably end up in your stashes because you invited them or a friend.

And this noob next time might show up with another friend who is an even bigger noob and they will both try to reach the cooler lines they heard you talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:09 pm
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Location: white room
I can definitely see both sides of this argument. Yes, it may lead to more people being out there, but hopefully those people will be less likely to make stupid mistakes. Along with this info there should be some info on safety and etiquette in the backcountry. As an example, a national snow porn mag recently gave general directions to a sidecountry stash that can have some severe consequences if someone ends up in the wrong spot, or in the wrong conditions. It's very possible people may follow tracks that dead end in a rappel or large cliffs in that area.
What I am wondering, though, is how someone is getting college credit in BC for spending 4 days a week riding and giving away stashes in the US. :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:19 am 
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Location: Nelson, British Columbia.
mtnman wrote:
I can definitely see both sides of this argument. Yes, it may lead to more people being out there, but hopefully those people will be less likely to make stupid mistakes. Along with this info there should be some info on safety and etiquette in the backcountry. As an example, a national snow porn mag recently gave general directions to a sidecountry stash that can have some severe consequences if someone ends up in the wrong spot, or in the wrong conditions. It's very possible people may follow tracks that dead end in a rappel or large cliffs in that area.
What I am wondering, though, is how someone is getting college credit in BC for spending 4 days a week riding and giving away stashes in the US. :scratch:


UFV is the closest University to Baker and Abbotsford BC is the largest center near Baker. Mt Baker is just a few short KM from the border. I’ve been riding Baker my whole life, since Bellingham was smelly pulp town no one wanted to live in (It’s a really nice place now!) and Baker was only open three days week - it would have barely even survived without Canadian business. I’ve also done some research with the borderlands initiative between WWU and UFV.

_________________
"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds."~ Edward Abbey

Trevor Campbell
http://www.mightybighornmaps.com


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Baker Backcountry Map Geo-database project
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:14 pm 
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Location: Durango, CO.
Tucks wrote:
So he will grab a friend to go next time and his friend will grab a friend and another and another. More people probably end up in your stashes because you invited them or a friend.

And this noob next time might show up with another friend who is an even bigger noob and they will both try to reach the cooler lines they heard you talking about.


So I guess you were hatched as an infant with mega back country knowledge and experience then. That's fortunate for you but the rest of us had to start somewhere. When I decided to become a splitboarder nothing was going to curb my decision. Without maps and things like Google Earth I would have been out there fumbling around making dangerous terrain decisions. If there was an aplication like the one described by the OP in my area I would've been much more educated. It's not like the aplication is going instigate a mad rush into the back country. It'll merely create a more knowledgeable use group. This is a good thing for a number of reasons.

bighorn, if you ever feel like moving your project from the PNW to the San Juans let me know. I'd help you in a heartbeat.


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