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 Post subject: Gear --- Input REALLY needed.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 23
OK, so I'm mostly a climber at heart, but I love the idea of a snowboard descent. Here is my question. A lot of you have been talking about how great the Nuptse is as a snowboard/climbing boot, but since I put thermofit liners in practically all of my climbing boots, is there a cheaper shell that with a thermofit liner will be as good/better than the Nuptse while maintaining it's climbing integrity? How about the Asolo Cholatse?

Also what liners do you guys use, the Denalis or the Powerwraps?

Finally, have you guys had any luck using say Koflachs + Intuition Powerwraps + Powerstrap + maybe an ankle brace or something?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Reno
AT Boots with plate bindings... first learn how to snowboard with agressive forward angles, in the "carving" style.

Koch, Gribber, etc... the heavy hitters in snowboard mountaineering all use this type of setup, and you will find your way there eventually, if you go to any significant altitude.

Strap bindings are a liability at altitude.

Also, hardboots allow you to use skinnier boards, which equals less weight on your back.

Zach

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:05 pm 
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I've been snowboarding for 10+ years btw... I know all of that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:00 pm
Posts: 293
Location: Northern CA
Hey SMC007

I have used Burtons SL7 boots (along with strap-on crampons) to summit Shasta with. All you need is a light weight snowboard boot with a shank or semi-ridged footbed.

Burton, K2 and I think a few others are now using Vibram soles, so that something else good to look for.

The Nuptse is a great "soft" mountaineering boot. What makes it good for snowboarding is has a tall upper cuff simular in height to a snowboard boot. This is one of the few "soft" mountaineering boots that gives the ability to remove the liners and either upgrade them (i.e. Thermoflex) or just for ability to dry them out... also like a snowboard boot - nice feature!

In addition, The Nuptses allow adequate stiffness to initiate turns (on a snowboard), suppy enough ankle support while still allowing some lateral flex essential for snowboarding, and most importantly - clears the height of your high-backs on your bindings. I think the main appeal, in addition to the other mentioned features, it is the only "snowboardish" boot that is fully auto-crampon compatible.

Being what I stated above, I still feel that any well built and supportive (plus - less expensive) snowboard boot along with a good pair of strap-on crampons is sufficient to use for the mountaineering aspects of backcountry snowboarding.

The new Spanik from La Sportiva is also not a bad option, but its stiffer and has a lacing system that could lend to some issues in the field.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:04 pm 
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I'm planning on climbing Denali next summer and want to do a snowboard descent. As you can see I need a boot with good climbing performance and good snowboard performance. Is the Nuptse the only climbing boot you know of that rises high on the ankle?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:44 pm 
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Location: Northern CA
I attend Outdoor Retailer trade show twice a year and check every boot brand available here in the US. Other than the LS Nuptse or Spantik, the Millet Alpinest GTX and Kayland's Explosion X2 are just the few others that I could find that had potential, but their cuffs (I think) were a liitle lower than LS Nuptse. The Asolo model you mentioned looks good, but I don't think the liner is removable.

Some of the Vibramed soled Burton and K2 boot models in their line-up are taylored towards snowboard mountaineering... they are built with more support and better sole tread for climbing on mixed terrain. Burton even has retractable traction teeth on their BC model.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Reno
scm007 wrote:
I'm planning on climbing Denali next summer and want to do a snowboard descent. As you can see I need a boot with good climbing performance and good snowboard performance. Is the Nuptse the only climbing boot you know of that rises high on the ankle?


Take this for what it's worth, but I've been up on Denali and will be there again, in June.

My climbing partner has both set-ups; Nuptses with lightweight strap bindings and AT boots with plate bindings. He's selling the Nuptses.

I had a watch strap, nalgene lid straps, and plastic utensils turn brittle on cold nights and crack... Based on that, I think I'll stick with metal for my bindings.

You also have the added advantage of being able to use light weight aproach skis about half the way up, depending on the route... For routes like the West Rib/Polish Direct or the Cassin Ridge, skis would pretty much be a necessity on the aproach.

Zach

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:35 am 
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I was thikning about using BCD's Bomber binding mod though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Reno
It's not a bad modification.

I just think that the simplicity of approach skis with Dynafit toe pieces, and a board with plate bindings really works well at altitude. It also seems to be the system of choice for the guys that are really succeeding at high altitude stuff.

Anyway, I prefer the hardboot riding style, so that may bias me.

To each their own.

Zach

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:00 pm 
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The thing about hardboots is that they don't climb very well... that's my main concern. Plus they are monstrously heavy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
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Location: Reno
Really?

I use Garmont Mega Rides, and they are lighter than my Asolo Ottomillas. They also climb great... depending on the terrain.

For mixed ice, no way. But, for snow slogs, steep snow, steep ice.. they work great. The Garmonts actually have a bit of articulation in the ankles that allow for a French step.

For front-pointing up steep ice, I prefer them to my climbing boots. I get a lot less sorenes in my calves, because of the support if the high cuff.

Zach

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:30 am
Posts: 610
Location: Mendham, NJ
I started out with the Nuptse....loved them.

Then i got a Great deal on Scarpa Matrix AT boots and LOOOVVVEEEE them!!!! They are all i rode when i was out in Washington this June. I could not have asked for a better set-up.

NOW i know Adams and Rainier arent Denali, but i was glad i had the hardboots for climbing early in the morning and the plates for the descent. Being from the East Coast and not used to Altitude, it made a noticable difference...even at 12K.

Simply put, AT boots climb better than anything ive ever been on and the ease of Plates/reliability like Zach said would be my only choice..especially at Altitude!!!! No way in HELL i would want straps on denali....or a split for that matter. I dont think i could put it together at 20K.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:48 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Yoda wrote:
Some of the Vibramed soled Burton and K2 boot models in their line-up are taylored towards snowboard mountaineering... they are built with more support and better sole tread for climbing on mixed terrain. Burton even has retractable traction teeth on their BC model.

Having used the Burton Driver X (the only Vibram one in their lineup), I wouldn't say it's aimed at serious snowboard mountaineering, at least not on the Denali scale. It seems more aimed at folks who want to do a little hiking outside the area boundary. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great boot, and it works great for me... but then I'm not climbing Denali. If I were, I would seriously think about a hardboot setup, probably like what BCD describes since I like the soft boot feel:

http://talk.splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1871
http://talk.splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2029

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Burton has had those retractable teeth on anything for a couple years now. By all accounts I've heard, those things were pretty useless. Now they have "rubber ice spikes" on the Vibram sole:

http://www.burton.com/Tech/BootsTechTraction.aspx

They had these on last year's Driver X too. They might add a marginal bit of traction, but... don't sell your crampons yet (or Verts!) :)


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