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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:56 pm
Posts: 478
Location: Meyers, CA
im pretty sure spectra is the same stuff as dyneema. i think dyneema is just a beal trade name. i believe its potentially negative properties are its very low melting point and extreme slipperiness. the slipperiness is why you can only buy it in presewn slings, which largely solves the slipperiness issue.

the spendy nature of the stuff is why i would be loathe to rap off it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:59 pm
Posts: 43
Location: WA Backcountry
rms56 wrote:
Ice Bat That's along way from a wrap 3 pull 2. I know its a one man....bit it IS..........weak.

Jump in here if you know. Interlocked web anchors (w3p2) are standard in the training I've had.


Wrap three pull two is a good idea for rescue situations, where you might have several people hanging from the same anchor. Never used it myself for single person raps, or heard of anyone else doing so. On a rock climb, you're trusting a single sling to hold the rope to your piece...

If anything, a fixed rap station might have several slings. Not sure why some folks seem to think 6 slings through a rap ring are safer than 2 or 3 or 4, but you'll see it out there. If you're worried about cost, pick up a piece of 1" nylon runner for about 30 cents/foot.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:54 pm
Posts: 233
Yes it was from TRT classes. Thanks for the clarification.

We also used a biner or ring, never webbing and rope in that configuration.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:18 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
huFfer wrote:
You know nothing. Your whole diatribe is absolutely 100% obsurd, you should stay home or stick to a "controlled" area. :roll:

and a few others might as well join him...


Huffer, there's plenty of validity in Jon's post. Why dont you add something constructive or cruise on over to rockclimbing.com? So far this has been a great forum without the egos; we dont need that kind of attitude here.

Thanks,
-Chris


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Seattle
Spectra itself may be problematic, but seriously, get some tape (skinny webbing) at some very marginal cost per foot. Have a knife with you. When you go to rap, make a water knot and cut what remains.

But you can also save your tape by rapping off trees and v-threads without using any webbing at all. Ropes these days are very resilient. I have a rope dedicated strictly to ski mountaineering, on which I never plan on taking a true leader fall anyway. A little friction from pulling the rope after a rap here and there really isn't an issue.

For skiing/snowboarding descents, the thought of carrying 'biners or rap rings solely for rappels seems absolutely asinine to me, but go with your own judgement...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Evergreen Land
Whoa, did someone just throw up in their mouth?

I was gonna post on this thread cause I thought it was Rap like Yo,Yo,Yo MCHammer and DJ Eazy Rock rap.

Now I know it's about RAPELLING.... the little rope and anchor work I've done ROCKCLIMBING tells me RAPELLING and TOP ROPING are two distinctly seperate activities. While both activities require a solid anchor only one activity while under load of a climbers weight will create sufficient friction in which the integrity of either rope or webbing may be put into question (melted?). Now, you the "climber" get to decide which activity it is.

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Smokey the Bear says you too can prevent forest fires.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
Thanks, ChrisI, but I can defend this post, too. Maybe I was a little tired when I made it. Yes you can rap off of a single sling, with no ring or 'biner. Is it the best way of doing it? NO. The single most used reason for doing it is $$$. As in I don't want to leave behind a 'biner/ring/etc. Also the dumbest reason. And the most selfish. In an emergency, with several pitches of rapping, and limited gear that needs to be conserved, do it. Carefully. On snow, the stakes are smaller, usually, and there are ways to set up rappels with ice axes/shovels/etc. that make those tools retrievable. If you figure you will never loose gear, or leave it behind, you are just not being a realist.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:35 pm 
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Posts: 203
Location: PNW
Minimalism goes way beyond economics. If we can afford backcountry ski gear, we can afford rap rings and biners. But it's the principle of carrying extra stuff, spending lots of time preparing an overkill anchor, and leaving hardware behind. Call it KISS, leave no trace, light is right, etc.

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Me llaman el desaparecido
que cuando llega ya se ha ido
volando vengo volando voy
de prisa de prisa rumbo perdido


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
Never said I didn't believe in the minimalist principles. Just weigh it with other realities, too. I don't want to carry one ounce more than needed, especially at my age. Too many times I've been the oldest shortest guy on a climb with the biggest load, but I was also the appointed leader and responsible for everyones safety. Balance in everything I say. Now they get the load, 'cause I delagate! And I still hold to my statement about money, I've heard it way too much.

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Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them (Frederick Douglass)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Seattle
I hate delegating tasks. I like to be on equal terms with my partners. Self-sufficiency and independence are important. I can't stand babysitting.

Steve House got down the Rupal Face after putting up a new route on Nanga Parbat alpine style by, among other things, doing a shitload of v-thread raps. One-point anchors, zero webbing. Nothing left behind.

My life is worth $12.57. That's with curly fries and a chocolate shake. But on a more sincere note about money, I get most of my rap slings by taking some of the overstock I find desceding alpine routes in the summer. It's pretty cheap. I love booty.

Many different philosophical approaches exist. Understand the implications of your actions and make your own choice.

Rules make good guidelines.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:51 pm
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Location: PNW
:roll:
You're making me hungry man. I bid the price of lunch. How much does it cost to eat at Flowers again?

oh wait, it's already 2...

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Me llaman el desaparecido
que cuando llega ya se ha ido
volando vengo volando voy
de prisa de prisa rumbo perdido


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Evergreen Land
skykilo $12.57 for burger and chocolate shake? must be at RedMill for a double bacon cheese deluxe with fries and chocolate shake then cause only RedMill is worth that price.

I'll give you a well said re: rules make good guidelines. It's just that some folks think printed word should be followed like scripture.

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Smokey the Bear says you too can prevent forest fires.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
skykilo wrote:

Steve House got down the Rupal Face after putting up a new route on Nanga Parbat alpine style by, among other things, doing a shitload of v-thread raps. One-point anchors, zero webbing. Nothing left behind.



But Steve House is superman w/o the cape! I concede the point that EVERY situation, and route, is different, and tactics need to be adjusted. Just don't steal the best/ last sling on a popular route, ok?

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Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them (Frederick Douglass)


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