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 Post subject: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:57 am 
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...even with all the new interfaces coming out it seems the puck system will still be around for a while since it's proven, effective, and all splitboard inserts are placed where they are because of these. With this the case, why hasn't anyone/Voile come up with a lighter puck? And if one did what materials could be used? Pucks are kinda heavy but it would seem like you could lighten them pretty easily using Carbon Fiber or a mixture of materials as far as the disc and the outer puck. I dunno, just seems like this got looked over in all the hype.


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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:39 pm 
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I guess I haven't messed with my pucks since setting up my board so many years ago. Are they really that heavy? Every little bit counts but with the pucks being THE thing holding you to your board they don't seem like the best place to shave what I'm assuming is a miniscule bit of weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Good question BG. I think over the years it's just been a combination of KISS (keep it simple stupid) and "if it aint broke don't fix it".

I got to spend a good amount of time with Voile at the recent show and while I can't promise anything let's just say that an obvious fire has been lit there. I'm excited. The springboard is the recent acquisition of Sentury snowboards and owner Ben Harmon. He knows his stuff regarding board mfg'n and his influence is already evident.

I agree with you too that even with new interfaces coming out, the puck system will be around a while and could see some tweeks. Voile knows this as well and I think its just a matter of time.

As I recently said...."its a good time to be a splitter"!


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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:25 pm 
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I don't think the pucks are very heavy, they don't say how much the parts weigh on their website but i'd like to find out. Most of the weight from the voile kits is in the rails, you can solve that by buying sparks or lightrails (at a price).

It's some type of plastic, so I don't think you will save a lot of weight there. In the interface I made I replaced regular plastic 4x4 disks by carbon fibre parts. The dimentions are about the same, and the weight is very similar with the carbon less than 10% lighter. My complete interface is much lighter because you don't need the rails or complicated bindings.

IMO the big difference with carbon is, it's very very strong. So you could make the puck pretty much completely cored out or hollow and it will stil be stronger than plastic. That will save you about 30% weight easily, but as I said I don't think the pucks are that heavy to begin with.

Some weights for parts:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AsrqtvOhZFQDdGZWRlJldFpSSFpSeWJlaVJnTGpmUHc&single=true&gid=0&output=html

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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Weight per side is approximately 1 lb. This includes 2 pucks, chinese hooks, tip and tail clips, and all screws, rivots.

Only way to save weight by coring out carbon pucks is to make sure ice and snow doesn't fill those voids.

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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Right, you could use a foamcore but in my opinion it's just not worth the trouble.

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Prior 165 Backcountry XTC Split
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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Carbon Fiber breaks too easily. It works for certain applications. But the pucks have to withstand a lot friction. I think that would cause carbon fiber to disintegrate pretty quickly.

Titanium might work.

Makes me wonder what would be more expensive. CF parts or titanium parts? I just bought a truck, so I'm not interested in learning the answer to that question anytime soon.

BGnight wrote:
... all the hype.


Whoa, there. This isn't “hype”, bro. It's baseless speculation surrounding untested products in a sport that has officially reached the status of being a “fad”. There's a difference, you know. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:51 pm 
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I'm sure they could be improved, but I don't think having a lighter weight, stronger puck system will really shine against the K stuff and the up and coming spark interface.

Without getting too far ahead of myself on the edison interface (needs to be proven etc) I would say the versatility and general advanced nature of the design compared to the pucks would still put it leaps ahead of a futuristic material version of the puck setup.

Karakoram had a new interface..........spark had a new interface...........voile will maybe have a new interface? Updated pucks in not only material, but design? (overlap?) Hopefully the waves of change keep rolling on!


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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:35 am 
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I know the voile puck system seems obsolete compared to all the new stuff coming out, but honestly, I agree with the old "if it ain'y broke don't fix it" idea. It works - and it works well. I have been riding the puck system for 5 years and never had a problem. And unlike some people here, I am unwilling to pay a ridiculous amount of money to save a few grams of weight off minor parts on my board. In fact, I'd rather have slightly heavier gear that lasts longer and is more reliable than super light stuff.



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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:06 pm 
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pucks aren't that heavy really, I think the biggest improvement should be in the binders and touring function which Will and K are addressing. all the rivets, inserts, screws and other misc bits and pieces need to attach the pucks, hooks, and tip clips are my least favorite part of the system. I understand they are necessary to hold everything on but I would like to see a system that is very clean is this regard. Pucks work great but they are old school. still I guess I will be riding them for a long time to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Wow, did you you guys watch the video about the 2012/2013 Spark Edison interface? Maybe pucks as we know them are going to just go away with no need to refine their design.

I do agree with the poster who feels that a few grams weight savings aren't worth a few $100s of new gear though. It's kinda like in bike riding, you can spend tons of money making your bike lighter, or you can drop a few pounds of fat by drinking less beer. As BC riders I think a lot of us could find more than a puck's worth of weight savings by streamlining the stuff in our packs - I hate it when me and my partner BOTH pull out a snow saw once we finish digging a bit.

That Edison video, and thinking back to time I entered Bridger Bowl's King of the Ridge contest, got me thinking though. Transitions are tiring. Fiddling with pins, skins, etc in the cold. At the top or bottom of the run when your adrenaline and heart rate are spiking. Bending over to buckle binidngs (compressing your diaphragm and screwing up your breathing). Stressing about holding up your crew. I wonder if it's maybe worth carrying a bit more weight in order to have a truely hassle-less transition. Something as simple to operate as the the Edison system appears might be a bigger energy saver than people realize - as long as icing isn't an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Location: Washington
wilkez wrote:
I know the voile puck system seems obsolete compared to all the new stuff coming out, but honestly, I agree with the old "if it ain'y broke don't fix it" idea. It works - and it works well. I have been riding the puck system for 5 years and never had a problem. And unlike some people here, I am unwilling to pay a ridiculous amount of money to save a few grams of weight off minor parts on my board. In fact, I'd rather have slightly heavier gear that lasts longer and is more reliable than super light stuff.



That needed to be said. I have 15 years on pucks and the only thing I had to send back in all that time was the 1st gen dual heel lifters. That's a high bar for reliability and reasonable cost. There still needs to be an affordable entry point. Pursuing light weight is fun as an engineering exercise but heavy works. Ain't nothing wrong with heavy, especially in coastal snow.


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 Post subject: Re: Question regarding pucks nonevolution
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Location: reiter hills
change the pucks?!? they're solid! the only orignal parts I am still using in my scrap and salvage DIY cycle... well, the hooks and clips as well, but I had to buy new screws from the hardware.

How about getting rid of a dozen unused inserts if you want to lose some weight.

do any board companies offer the option of not putting a pound steel in their board except for where you want it?

I only need 8, not 26. what's the weight on 18 t-nut inserts? anyone know?

I don't have any issues with the voile system. it works. I am sure they could do something to make it better, and people would lap it up. i prolly would if I had money. so they are kind of missing the boat by not doing the annual lineup tweak. higher end pucks or whatever else.

i prefer the solid mount of the diy pucks. I have the adjustable ones, and they move around a bit. is there a trick to stop that? I thought about using epoxy and screws, but then i wouldn't be able to use them on my next DIY.


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