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 Post subject: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:18 am
Posts: 20
Flame away but wondering what the general consensus is in regards to removing your skins when touring back to the car? I have found it to be tough to ski out on fast trails while in split mode without my skins on. Yesterday on Teton Pass I got heckled by some boot packers about using my skins to ride back to the car. "It would be much faster without your skins on" yeah no shit..

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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:39 am
Posts: 124
Location: Helena, MT
Kinda like training wheels, in that they keep your speed in check and don't allow you to slip backwards. It all depends on your ability to 2-plank!

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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:10 pm
Posts: 58
To me, split skiing is an important skill that really takes your mountain travel prowess to the next level. I kinda got forced into it while touring with some really strong skiers that moved very quickly in the mountains. They kept poking at me to leave the skins off and the more i've done it the more i love it. In a weird way i actually look forward to low angle split ski turns. I would recommend taking your split up to your local resort and spend a few laps just skiing it (or maybe a whole day :shock: ) It will shave a TON of time off of your exit times and get you back to the car less tired and more stoked. Plus it's one less thing skiers have to hold against yah :thumpsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:13 pm
Posts: 213
Ya, I also leave skins on if it's up and down rolling - same for the skiers I've been with, but it really depends on the situation / terrain.

If it's just down, even if a very mellow angle - I'd rather stay in ride more. I wax, so it usually slides OK, and also push myself with the poles occasionally... Even though the pole thing is a bit weird because my angles aren't parallel forward, that would be much easier.

I hear you - in some cases the ability to split ski may be valuable and could be fun. I 'may' have to do some practice runs at resorts, as suggested...


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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 1881
Location: in between
hell no. I don't want to eat shit or f up my knees. skins on going down in tour mode or ride it out with poles. :bananas:

I think with a heel lock down mod, it would be doable.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm
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Location: Rainier Beach
I use my poles a lot on exits too, so I can stay in ride most as long as possible. Just got used to it over the last few years and now it's second nature.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:44 pm
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Location: The Magic City
Come to MT--you'll learn real quick that leaving skins on isn't going to cut it! :D

Let me guess, you were on the way back to the car from Edelweiss? It also strikes me as hilarious that the bootpackers were making snide comments about your speed... not-so-subtle irony there!

Heckling aside (all in good fun!)... I'd wager you haven't been splitting for very long? In my experience, the people who leave their skins on for low angle, rolling exits are either 1) inexperienced or 2) very geographically blessed and don't have to deal with logistical necessities like splitskiing because they can shred all the way out the exits of what they ride.

Even if #2 fits, if you stick w/ splitboarding you'll very likely reach a point where the things you're inspired to ride are a lot further from the trailhead. If you haven't honed your splitskiing skills by that point, you'll be in for some harsh lessons on the exit.

Obviously there's no hard and fast answer, but if you're interested in moving more quickly and efficiently through flat, rolling terrain on the exit (or otherwise!), then yes--learning to splitski w/out skins is a necessity.

Cody is right. Skins can serve as training wheels to help you negotiate your first uncomfortable exit descents where it's too flat/inconvenient to shred... but leaving them on can also reinforce some bad habits! So my advice to you (I take it you live in Jackson unless you were just traveling to Teton Pass): Do lots of south-side runs that descend into Trail Creek and bring you back to the Old Pass Road parking lot (Avy Bowl, the Claw, KB Ridge, Titmouse Ridge, Olympic Bowl, Tele Bowl, etc...). Once you meet back up with the old pass road, put your split in ski mode and practice exiting in full ski mode! Yes, it's unnecessary most days as it's plenty steep to keep shredding, but it's also wide and packed enough to facilitate good learning.

You do get to the point where splitskiing becomes enjoyable & second nature.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:51 am
Posts: 650
I've been on a few tours lately where I don't put them back on on the way back to the truck. I used to tele a little so in a pinch, I can drop a knee and force a turn or at least get closer to the ground and brace for impact. I also sometimes lock down the heel on my Karakorams. This really helps on steeper stuff, but can be a pain switching back and forth. I slid a few miles on my skis in tour mode without skins today.

But the real answer is: "It depends"


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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am
Posts: 299
Location: a mile high COLORADO
come on guys skiing is easy, that's why I snowboard. I can do both skiing, pizza and french fries... :thatrocks:

to each his own, im sure once you get comfy skiing in slo mo you will venture to take them off soon.

just like training wheels. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
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Location: Colorado
Depends… Situations can be so different that it is hard to generalize. If there is a lot of uphill, or true flats, skins on is going to be faster. If there is a lot of steeper downhill, snowboard is going to be safer for me. If it is rolling and mostly mellow angle downhill, then I am attempting split skiing.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:16 pm
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+1 for barrows having the only decent response on this.

two tricks I use
1. One foot it dude. Ride when you can and skate when you need to.
2. one skin on one skin off. You can unweight the ski with the skin when you feel comfortable and put it down as a break when you need to.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 134
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Gaper Alert! :mrgreen:

Image

barrows wrote:
Depends… Situations can be so different that it is hard to generalise.


I'd agree with that, though thinking about it, most of the time I have mine off. If you come across a little uphill you can always side step it. I also have the karakoram heel lockdowns, can't recommend these highly enough. Remember though, you don't want to apply to much load as something will break.

Despite the fact I don't like 2 planking on my split, there are times when it's been incredibly handy, saving both energy and time. :oops:

If there's any exposure or a reasonable amount of uphill, I guess i'd skin it. In these situations it definitely worth a small stop to apply skins.

Being in the backcountry is about adapting yourself to the conditions, be that with your gear or actions. It's easy to spot people new to the backcountry because a lot of the time they're unwilling to stop to make some change even when it's required e.g. won't take off a layer when sweating because it's too much effort to stop, take off pack etc. I'm the first to admit I've been guilty here ( we all are at some time) and when this happens it's a flag for me that I know I'm getting tired and it's time to hydrate / eat / rest / dial it back a little / go home. I watch experienced people e.g. guides and they're constantly adapting gear / behaviour to suit the circumstances, but without needlessly slowing things down i.e. they do it quickly and efficiently. :twocents:


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 Post subject: Re: Do you remove your skins when touring back to the car?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 428
Location: san diego
I'm not the most effective split skier, definately some concerns about wadding up and breaking gear or myself. Have to make more of an effort this season.

JiveStick on the other hand...

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