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Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
Just the pics, let me savor the mystery of stumbling on to the zone 18%  18%  [ 5 ]
Pics and general location 75%  75%  [ 21 ]
Pics and tell me the exact location 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 28
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 Post subject: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Okay - I didn't want to put this in the TR section, because that sort of defeats the purpose, but I wonder how people feel about knowing exactly where every photo is taken , vs leaving a little mystery on the table so folks can feel the excitement of self discovery.
And yes I get it - the Wasatch where I live is a small area, yada, yada, yada and I understand that being an old man like me predates the interweb era of everything all the time, nothing sacred, yada, yada, yada, but humor me.

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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Cool topic. Depends on the area/traditions. In the Tetons, which are so sick that they need no introduction, people seem pretty laid back about comprehensive beta sharing. Blame it on Turiano's classic Teton Skiing guidebook, blame it on Steve (RIP), who knows.

Come up here, to southwest MT (well, Bozeman specifically), and you're likely to get berated by a bunch of internet bro-brahs for giving away the same kind of info on your blog/facebook/whatever. It's always been funny to me that the flatter, smaller, more mediocre terrain up here would engender so much resistance. (hope I don't ruffle too many feathers w/ that one!)

Best one was when I got called out for posting a TR on a mountain highly visible from I-90 between Bozeman and Billings... to anyone who happens to look out their window, the mountain was clearly made for shredding. Don't see how I'm really spilling any beans with that one!

However, I do think one should keep it vague. Over the years I've had a great time finding random photos online and using them, along w/ other resources, to piece together an idea of where I thought it might be, then taking a trip to see for myself. Sometimes I'm surprised, sometimes shut down, but it's always fun and adds a little bit of adventure to it.

I say save your super-specific geographical info for your report to your local avy center :). Leave it out of the photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Yeah that's more or less my take as well. Once you've spent even a small amount of time around here, there are lines that are immediately recognizable and need no introduction. Even then, there are a few locals who no matter how well known an area, they manage to photograph it in such a way it remains a mystery to all but the most familiar. And these same guys rarely drop a lot of names. I like having no idea where they rode - although aspect, elevation and general obs are much appreciated.
Much Respect :headbang:

A big draw for me is the feeling of seeing a zone for the first time. As long as its unrecognizable I could care less if someone posted photos - even then, if I recognize it from a photo I like not knowing 'where' the photo was taken so I get that - Oh! this is where that was!

I suppose the greatest downer for me personally is when I go to an area that a minority of riders are familiar with and it gets sprayed about the web with impunity. In the relatively short time I've been "officially backcountry touring" (e.g. splitboarding) I've seen places that not only had next to no visitors in the winter, but summer as well, become complete abortions. Skinners and lines with no style all over the place and little consideration for those that precede or follow.

Anyways just trying to keep the posts original and stoke conversation.

AND I know, I know "if you don't like it - don't watch, listen, look at the interwebs". :D

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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:58 pm 
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I think it's cool to give a general idea of where a photo is from, it's inspiration to check out a new spot. I don't think we need to many details, and obviously some spots tend to be a bit more guarded. But unless you live in some really remote spot, no one here is finding new lines on their own - everyone has been shown by someone, or found something on the internet, and the line was being skied by a bunch of hippies on tele gear with leather boots 40 years ago. I personally feel TRs should be reserved for something out of the ordinary, whether it's a rarely skied line line or some cool adventure, but I also only possess a phone camera, so I don't put up many pics anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:32 pm 
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I think general location is and pic is ideal. If you are familiar with the area you will recognize where it was taken anyway. However, with the thin snow pack we've been having so far (the Wasatch for example), I think its helpful to be a little more specific so that the regional forums can be a collective resource to keep people from slogging for nothing or breaking themselves on a buried rock. An extra 6 inches can go a long way in these conditions.

Now midwinter, if I had a slope that was super easy to access and had great snow but wasn't seeing any other tracks, Im definately keeping that to myself.

Overall I do think the mystery and discovering a zone for yourself does have an appeal to it.

Now if we are talking fishing spot, You guys are getting a picture of the fish with a blacked out background... :D


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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:56 am 
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In my neck of the woods the big terrain is all pretty well discovered. It's the lowly cinder cones and adjacent mountains that no-one but a few seem to recognize as potential fun zones to explore and find hidden gems. Even if i posted pics of those adventures most in this area would turn their noses at the idea. So my not so secret spots are safe in their solitude..


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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:16 am 
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Location: The Magic City
Snurfer wrote:
I suppose the greatest downer for me personally is when I go to an area that a minority of riders are familiar with and it gets sprayed about the web with impunity. In the relatively short time I've been "officially backcountry touring" (e.g. splitboarding) I've seen places that not only had next to no visitors in the winter, but summer as well, become complete abortions. Skinners and lines with no style all over the place and little consideration for those that precede or follow.


I agree. I've been shredding in the BC long enough to remember when you could show up at the Teton Pass parking lot at noon on a Saturday and there would only be a half-dozen other cars up there. Amazing to think how much that place has grown. Same goes for plenty of others areas I've been riding at up here.

But it's also hard to say how much of that traffic is due to people spraying about these locations online. A lot of the crowds are related only to the growth in popularity of backcountry skiing/snowboarding. While I think pics/blog posts can start to create a buzz around a place, I think it's still a pretty big leap for someone to take what they've seen online and replicate it. Most skiers/snowboarders are lazy/not that adventurous by nature and aren't going to bum rush a stash just because they saw a bunch of pretty pics online, even if they did get specific location data, etc...

I think the northern Tetons is a good example of that. Steve sprayed so hard about that zone for years on his blog, yet even now you'll very seldom see more than a couple people out there at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:57 am 
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Zude wrote:
In my neck of the woods the big terrain is all pretty well discovered. It's the lowly cinder cones and adjacent mountains that no-one but a few seem to recognize as potential fun zones to explore and find hidden gems. Even if i posted pics of those adventures most in this area would turn their noses at the idea. So my not so secret spots are safe in their solitude..


+1

Mid-country bliss.

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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:23 pm 
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I generally split in places that are far removed from places the majority of people on this forum normally visit e.g. Australia, NZ, Japan so mostly I'm pretty happy to share.

I'm sure it's the same everywhere in that traffic in the backcountry is on the up as more and more people start discovering the joys of "earning your turns". I'm a "jonny-come-lately" to split boarding too.

We all enjoy the solitude of the backcountry and it's always slightly deflating to see tracks in your favourite area, so I can see why people are a little reticent to share!

My personal take is that the easier a line is to get to, the less specific I would like to be about it's location. Part of the joy of the backcountry is "exploring"… safely of course!

I'd happily post the exact location and all I know of somewhere that takes real commitment to get to e.g. long, difficult approach or helicopter in to glacier hut or something, then I'd know that people who go there are truly committed!

I'd be less likely to share a gem that is easily accessible.

I don't claim to be any kind of "trailblazer" in the sense of discovering hidden gems, just following in the footsteps (or skin track!) or others more adventurous than my self, so I'm not sure that my logic is sound or completely unselfish, but that's my :twocents:


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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:06 am 
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I learnt a valuable lesson earlier this year when i posted a picture of a un touched 150m vert couloir on my blog and when i went back to attack it a day later it had already been tracked. Never doing that again...

But i think most of the shit i throw up on my blog is so well known it doesnt matter if im sharing it. Now my future missions, no one is knowing about them!

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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:51 am 
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I think pics and general location are more than OK. Growing up in the Ice Coast, everyone was super protective of their stashes (especially summer harvested glades) to the point of being super dickish when inquiring about beta, but personally I never got it. I'm all for solitude, but generally everyone I've met in the BC while on tour is pretty stoked to be outside, getting fresh air and skiing/riding. Those are the type of humans I actually want to be around. As nickstayner said, most resort skiers/riders are not going to work for the reward of a line.

Posting of TRs, new zones are inspirational to me in getting out and enjoying my own backyard, as well as fantasy land for far flung snow-travel. And if that travel happens, well then maybe I'll know who to reach out for to get beta, or even better meet someone new for a tour.

I think the pit posts of snowpack details that accompany some TRs is an invaluable resource when combined with the local avy forecasts too.

With Google Maps, exploration is as close as your nearest PC/tablet/phone. :twocents:


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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Location: Washington
Snurfer wrote:
I suppose the greatest downer for me personally is when I go to an area that a minority of riders are familiar with and it gets sprayed about the web with impunity.


Around here we call that the TAY EFFECT. A simple "'it's good!" condition report will get several hundred views and be blown out the next day. It bummed me out at first but then I realized I didn't have to break trail as much and the herd does what the herd does and mostly follows what the guidebook tells them. So yeah, it hasn't cut into my pow quota at all.

It has been interesting to see how the trendy web blown spot changes from season to season. One of my favorite zones was popular for one season and then fell out of favor and went back to being quiet. Fickle. Classic example of a web blow up is the Slot on Mt. Snoqualmie. Ten years ago it was rarely hit... now there is guaranteed to be a dawn patrol skin track after every storm. Like a race to get it first and TR it up. Crazed. But like I said it hasn't cut into my quota so it's all good.

Someone needs to be writing their Sociology thesis on web influenced skier migratory patterns etc... I would read it.

International Readers: In so far as this thread hints at localizm and bad feelings related to web based crowding and proximity to large urban populations please ignore that bullshit as we are a troubled nation and please to continue posting rad TR's from Japan, Chile, Iceland etc.... Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Better to savor the mystery or surrender the secret?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Location: reiter hills
I like the tay effect, and quite honestly use it a basis on where to go.

Case in point. A young splitter did a cool overnight trip to a certain volcanos ridge. Most people beleived the road to be closed indefinatly. I saw the glowing report and said to myself,. well, that spots out for the year......time to go somewhere else. Later I seen a photo of said ridge looking like a mogul field at a resort

Like wise, I ride a spot til its blown out, then report. It will draw the tay heard to where you have been. Giving you a higher chance at solitude at where you are going.

This only works for easy day trip areas, and early season pow fields.

But honest answer to snurfer, its a fine line. I enjoy the mystery. I find it pretty easy to remain naive enough. How about a good report with enough clues to keep it a good mystery.

I remeber way back, legend of zelda #1. My friend bobby was excited to tell me he beat the game... I was amazed... dude, where did you get the flute? Where was the..."I got this book, it tells you where everything is."
Tok me a couple months but I finally got it on my own. By then bobby had already 'beaten' metroid man, mario, and whatever else he had a book to... but was he really playing the game? Or just going through the actions to add to his tick list?

So I feel you.

So ill tell you about super mario, how I played it, and how it made me feel.... your just going to have to figue out how to get to the underworld on your own. Or, just ask, id be more then happy to tell you in private.


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