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 Post subject: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:10 am
Posts: 12
Hi.
Went out skinning for the first time the other day. Solution using SL30 bindings. What a blast! I have both the solution and flagship and thought the solution rode far closer to the flagship than I was expecting. The incremental weight is noticeable though, and it's a bit less playful than the flagship.

I have a few basic questions (I ride with skiers mostly) that I was hoping some could provide some answers on:

1) Snow build up inside the climbing wire housing, after using climbing and heel-lock down modes (such that I can't get the wire back into climbing mode). also, even when in heel-lock down mode the wire sometimes fell forward, even though I thought it was in the locked position - any tips here?

2) fastest way to take out skins out and put them on (use mesh paper so they are easier to peel apart, then stand split ski up and start from top?). I think the G3 instructions say not to use the mesh in the field? really?

3) trimming the skins, how much edge should be showing. if you cut it too close, then if the alignment is just a little off when you attach the skin, some of the edge will end up covered towards the bottom, and then you need to reapply? if you trim the skin a bit narrower, loose surface area, but only marginal and then there is more room for error in aligning the skin.

thanks all for any help.


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Kodiak, AK
1) You can spray the heel riser area with silicone spray and let that dry. Sometimes this helps combat snow build-up. It will probably exacerbate the climbing wire fold-down issue though (friction is your friend when it comes to keeping the wire up). I personally did not care for the heel risers that Karakoram ships with the bindings. Mine folded down or just snapped off. I would contact the K brothers and they will send you new ones. They are very responsive. It seemed like there was a rash of that issue last winter and maybe they changed the design a little in the mean time, though if you have new bindings you probably also have the new heels. Voile climbing wires are way better in my experience, though whether or not they work perfectly with the Split30 bindings can be debated.

2) The mesh fabric is called a 'cheat sheet', and I use them all the time when in the backcountry as I'm too lazy to rip the glue apart. They will deteriorate after time and leave plastic bits on the glue. When that starts happening you will want to use some other material as a cheat sheet. Look here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12583

3) When you trim your skins, the metal edge should be showing but the p-tex base of the boards should be covered. You will basically cut the skin to be about 3mm inset on each ski along each edge. The G3 trimming tool makes this totally painless.

Image

When putting the skin on, as you said, put the bottom of the ski in the snow, and hang the skin from the tip of the ski. Start ripping the glue or peel the cheat sheet by pulling down on the tail of the skin. When you are about half way, lift the ski out of the snow with one hand and hold the tail of the skin with the other. Flip the ski over away from you and rest the tip of the ski, base side up, on the snow and put the tail of the ski against your stomach so that you can hold the ski with body pressure against the snow and use both hands to finish placing the skin. Since it is attached at the tip of the ski and you can hold the skin taut off the base of the ski by pulling back on the skin's tail with one hand, you can then reach forward and 'wipe' the skin against the ski by sliding your other hand back along the skin. Use the tail hand to guide the skin into position as you stick it down with the wiping hand. You will get a feel for it and get better at centering the skin with practice. There are probably a lot of youtube videos showing this and different people with have different techniques.

If you cut the skin too narrow you will have more wiggle room for placement on the ski, but you will have traction issues if you need to traverse on firm snow since you will be on the edge with no skin nearby to help grip.

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:10 am
Posts: 12
thank you. all makes sense and helpful. just for clarification though, is it your view that with the split30 bindings the voile climbing wires work better?


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Washington
Alternative to cheat sheets is go to the fabric store and get a approx 2" strip of sport nylon and place it down the center of the skin. This will make the skins a little easier to pull apart.The glue on the sides will still hold the skin on. When the glue gets tired remove the nylon for the fresh glue in the center. When that glue gets tired, renew the glue and start over with nylon down the center.


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 672
Location: Kodiak, AK
When I snapped my K heel riser in half I used the Voiles for a while. The geometry between the Voile and K touring brackets and heel risers were different and the Voiles did not seem optimal to me. You want the climbing wire to sit pretty close to perpendicular to the base of the binding it is supporting so that it does not fold down or fold back. The Voile wires sat at a funny angle to the base of the K bindings when climbing. I got new K parts pretty fast and then ended up getting rid of the system shortly after that, so I did not have much time on the Split30 binding / Voile heel riser combo. It seems like other people have run this setup and did fine with it. I would explain your situation in an email to the K brothers and I bet they hook you up.

You can try to *carefully* bend the climbing wire a little so that it is less likely to fold down. Do not use the plastic heel plate as the thing you are bending them against because they will break.

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 152
Location: Canada
Another tip for skins in the field for quick yo yo laps is rolling them up....I would NOT store the skins like this, but rolling them up individually is quick to do, even quicker to unfold (literally just toss them and hang onto the tip) and makes for quick transitions. But don't store them like that or the hair might bond to the glue.


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Cottonwood, UT
classicauto wrote:
Another tip for skins in the field for quick yo yo laps is rolling them up....I would NOT store the skins like this, but rolling them up individually is quick to do, even quicker to unfold (literally just toss them and hang onto the tip) and makes for quick transitions. But don't store them like that or the hair might bond to the glue.

I totally agree with this method. It is so much faster to get the skins apart and you won't even have to keep them in your jacket on the way down to keep the glue warm and tacky. You can just roll them up and throw them in your bag.

As classicauto said, don't store them like this. You don't want the glue to warm up to room temperature while stuck to nylon fabric. Also don't do this if your skins are covered in sap, pine needles or mud. Obviously you'll contaminate your glue. That being said, I've never had an issue with skins losing stickiness yet.


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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:29 pm
Posts: 38
If you dont wont to roll pull the skins apart using your legs.rip them apart a little and place skin between your legs and fold the 2 sides backwards and bend legs outwards.works really well.

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 Post subject: Re: first time out! - a few basic questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:08 pm
Posts: 162
Location: Squamish, BC
My gf was struggling big time with ripping her skins apart every time. I bought her the G3 love gloves for Xmas and she loves them. My skins are a bit too wide for them but here fit perfectly, she has it pretty dialed now and it is super fast. They are definitely designed for narrower ski skins but will work with skins for narrower splits too.


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