Splitboard.com Forums

The World's first exclusive splitboard discussion forums






It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:02 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

When do you bring a helmet on tour?
Always 49%  49%  [ 26 ]
Depends on the route 30%  30%  [ 16 ]
Never 20%  20%  [ 11 ]
Only when I need to film ;) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 53
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:57 pm
Posts: 5105
Location: California
gary,

No need to re-read your post. I wasn't necessarily speaking directly to you in my entire post.

In regards to being defensive. I'm not defensive at all. I just don't agree with your point of view.

Studies and standards mean absolutely nothing to me. My head is more protected while wearing a helmet and that's all that really matters. (to me)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Fort Collins
Uh, for the record...

I was the guy who made the "stupid" comment about riding in a car with a helmet. It was meant as a joke (I have actually never tried this). It certainly wasn't meant to justify not wearing a helmet.

Unless I happen to have forgotten it (very rare) I always wear a helmet when I ride. Irregardless of studies, I am pretty certain that it protects my gray matter better than the lack thereof.

What others do is up to them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:12 am
Posts: 829
Location: PNW Hood Canal
This weekend on my way up to Rainier for my first time ever I put my helmet on so I would be ready to rock and roll when the truck stopped. I'm a dork. I ride like a puss when I don't wear a helmet. I ride like a puss when I do wear a helmet. Helmet are hot when you skin, but warm when you ride. They are heavier than hats so whiplash type crashes could to more neck damage, but no matter what the reason I wear mine when I ride. Anything that gives me any possibility of a better outcome is on my gear list of things to have or to get. Helmet, check. Avalung, check. Crampons, check. Ice axe, check. I like the discussion, you can see that it can become polarized and ultimately will be a matter of choices. I agree with BG you should not force someone to wear one, but there are clear benefits of having one on.

_________________
Mumbles...addicted thanks to sb.com
Mojo 171 / ST 178 / C-Split 165 / DIY Johan 162
Sparks Ignition II's / Mr. Chomps
DC Torch / Lowa Structura EVO AT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 1866
Location: in between
Peoples perceptions and decisions seem to stem from an experience or a friend's experience.

If you've never fallen and hit your head or had a friend who has, then I think you are more proned to not wear a helmet.

If you have hit your head or know of someone who has been injured from not wearing a helmet, then I think you are more likely to be using a helmet.

food for thought:

I started wearing a skate helmet after two friends, who were ripping skaters both got head injuries street/park skating in two separate incidents within a couple of months.

First time at Mammoth looking at the park and pipe, I immediately bought a snowboard helmet, and guess what, the next day I hit the back of my head in the pipe.

Been cracked on the head while wearing a helmet when someone was taking their pack off with board attached and it swung around and hit me.

Hit a sheet of ice and went head first into a small tree with helmet on.

Hit many branches with head while wearing a helmet.

Tumbled and rag dolled many times in thin coverage and was glad I had a helmet on.

Luca brasi smashed his helmet in the park... :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:57 am
Posts: 1111
Location: Santa Barbara, CA/Ashland, OR
mtnman wrote:
UTAH, I have actually heard the exact opposite as far as females in the group. Several avalanche instructors have told me having a female in the group tends to lead to less risk taking - unless the males are trying to impress the ladies, of course. :wink: I've also heard the argument about helmets making people feel safer, thereby more likely to ride fast. These studies, though, no matter how accurate or inaccurate they may be, are just using statistics. I personally take more risks inbounds in a controlled environment, where I am not too concerned about slides and I know help is minutes away - which does make my personal helmet choice seem contradictory, but as I said earlier, sometimes it's about convenience.
P.S. There is a very interesting study done on the psychological and emotional aspects, and human factors such as group dynamics, involving avalanches, which is not covered in a lot of avy courses, but provides much food for thought. I'll post it in the avy section when I can find a link.


I agree with this line of thinking. My Daughter was born 4 winters ago. That same winter I met a girl who took a spill in the buttermilks and broke her leg and slipped into a coma for 3 days. She was not wearing a helmet. About a week later I was riding in-bounds at Mammoth (also where I take most risks!) and fell on a hard packed Avi Chute 2 and slid a long way hitting some smaller tree/treetops with my head and face. I was fine, but that fall convinced me that if I wanted my daughter to have a daddy while growing up, AND I wanted to keep pushing my limits, it was time for a helmet. I've never gone back. I also DO encourage others to wear a helmet as well. If that's "pressure" than so be it. I'm pretty open minded and generally don't push my opinions on other people, but if a buddy that I know rides in high consequence settings and asks me what I think I'm eager to tell him.

This winter I saw a guy fall 300+ feet down KT-22 without a helmet and lectured him too :-), he was very lucky to be unhurt...we actually thought we saw him hit a tree headfirst.

With all due respect, I don't buy the idea that helmets encourage people to take more chances. I could make the same arguments for seatbelts, but it would be just as invalid. People who make bad decisions make bad decisions without or without a brainbucket. The only anti-helmet argument my personal experience has shown me is that on occassion I clip a tree branch or something that I would probably have seen if I wasn't wearing a helmet (blocking some peripheral vision). Just this morning I looked at all the dings on my helmet and realized how much damage that thing has protected my from and was very grateful. All in all, I'm a pretty big advocate, but I do understand to each his/her own.

FWIW I do ride without it on in-bounds, groomer only, non-icy, very warm sprintime conditions...and also frequently remove it while skinning/hiking.

May all your brains work well enough to retain all these memories we're making well into old age!

_________________
"Winter is not a season, it's an occupation."
-Sinclair Lewis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 245
Location: Orange County, California
Very interesting discussion so far! I can relate to many of you and your personal experiences.
And while I would recommend a helmet to everyone, I don't think I would force it on anyone. I would speak out a recommendation to be very cautious on the descent, if the terrain is rocky, helmet or not, if the person is inexperienced.

I personally noticed that I fall less and less! When I was younger and in the days before helmets I would hit stones hidden in powder and ragdoll, before I even realized what happened to me and I always thought: If I hit the next stone with my head, I'll be dead. For some reason, stuff like that just doesn't happen to me anymore (at least for the last 6 years). May it be for having a better eye for terrain, better riding technique (I still hit hidden rocks, but now I take pressure of my board on every suspicious bump I see) or just plain luck. I think that might have given me a false sense that I have better control of things in the backcountry. And of course it only takes one accident to kill you.

I think I will make it a habit to always bring my helmet touring, but isn't it funny how every guidebook tells you to travel light, but then give you these enoumous lists of things that you need to bring!?

_________________
I'm a german transplant. That's why I sound weird ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 8:05 am
Posts: 1479
Location: 395
I definitely would wear a helmet in a snowboard park. In fact you'd have to be crazy not to imo.
As for freeriding I think it depends on if you like to huck cliffs, ride really fast, etc and knowing your own riding abiltities/style whether wearing a bucket is right for you.

"Peoples perceptions and decisions seem to stem from an experience or a friend's experience.

If you've never fallen and hit your head or had a friend who has, then I think you are more proned to not wear a helmet.

If you have hit your head or know of someone who has been injured from not wearing a helmet, then I think you are more likely to be using a helmet."



I personally have been witness to a climbing fall where a guy w/out a helmet hit his head on a rock, got knocked out, and probably had a really bad concussion. For all I know he may still not be right. If he had a helmet I'm sure it would be much less severe.
My dad also had a double cerebral hemotoma from hitting a cement truck on his bicycle. They literally had to cut two holes in the side of his skull to drain all the pooled blood inside (gross, I know) The doctor said he'd probably be dead if he didn't have a helmet on.
I however do not wear a helmet at the resort and only occasionally for rockfall purposes in the backcountry. I have started wearing one more often for climbing depending on rockfall potential and the type/grade of climbing involved.
I mean, it's safer than not wearing one no matter what. There's no argument.
I think I just chose to not wear one cuz I'm just used to not wearing one and I don't fall very often. I do kinda believe that wearing one may make one subconsciously more careless or wreckless.
If I'm doing a snowboarding route that involves a sketchy climb in a high rockfall area, then yeah you should insist that your partner wear one.
But if I'm going out and riding something steep w/ a no fall zone, but the rock/icefall factors aren't there w/ someone I know is badass then it's their choice imo.

As for helmets, why do all the new ski/snowboard helmets not have webbing inside like ones I use for climbing/firefighting?
I think having the suspension acts like a shock absorber and is what makes a helmet effective.
All these new helmets look really fancy and safe but are nothing but a piece of molded styrofoam from the looks of them. Cycling helmets don't have webbing, but are much thicker than the new ski helmets.
Sry, just rambling.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:24 am
Posts: 119
I'd be lying to say I wear a helmet on every line every time.

I do wear one more often than not.

I realize how easy it is to get hurt on easy lines.

But, like I said, there are times I get a little complacent and don't wear a helmet, usually on low-ish angle corn runs.

I almost always wear one in pow. Like Killclimbz(?) said, there's just way to much stuff lurking under the snow. Or if something slides, I want a helmet on.

In regards to people riding faster with a helmet, I find that to be true sometimes.

My girlfriend, for example, just started wearing a helmet consistently this year. Does she ski faster? Yep. Does she ski better? Yup. I think they are related. She has more confidence and actively skis the line instead of being defensive and letting the line ski her.

She is faster, but she skis better and in more control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Fort Collins
I think renoenvy makes a great point w/regard to confidence. It seems to me that a little extra confidence can result in a corresponding increase in skill.

Somewhat off topic but I recall trying to walk up Medicine Bow peak early one season, solo. When my way was blocked by a somewhat steep snowfield, my mind got all squirrely when I tried to traverse it. I ended up turning back. To this day, there's no doubt in my mind that I would have made short work of it had a partner been present, instilling that sense of confidence, however false it may have been.

I'm not endorsing doing foolhardy stuff unconsciously because of the presence of other people, but it seems to me that there is a small bit of wiggle room in terms of where the limits are where you might actually be better at stuff yet still able to make reasonable decisions, if that makes any sense. Then, at some point, said confidence becomes detrimental...

I freely acknowledge that such views may be illusory and get one seriously injured or killed. Presence of mind is the most important thing. Sorry about the ramble, but I find these things fascinating.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1619
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
BGnight wrote:
As for freeriding I think it depends on if you like to huck cliffs, ride really fast, etc and knowing your own riding abiltities/style whether wearing a bucket is right for you.

I don't buy this. Most of the times I've been glad I had my helmet was when I least expected to need it. I.e. on an easy run, going slow, and didn't see that tree branch. Or hit that buried rock on the groomer and catapulted. Etc etc etc. I think I have a fairly realistic knowledge of my limits, and I wear a helmet because I don't know when I'll need it.

Quote:
As for helmets, why do all the new ski/snowboard helmets not have webbing inside like ones I use for climbing/firefighting?
I think having the suspension acts like a shock absorber and is what makes a helmet effective. All these new helmets look really fancy and safe but are nothing but a piece of molded styrofoam from the looks of them.

The shock absorption in ski/bike helmets is the hard foam shell itself. It is what deforms and absorbs the shock in a crash. This is why you want to replace the helmet after a hard fall.

As far as the argument about wearing a helmet making you take greater risks, I suppose that could be true in some cases. I try to be cognizant of that, but I will say that wearing protective gear in general I think is helpful to me, because if I'm not thinking as much about the possibility of *minor* injuries, I tend to be less tensed up when I ride. I consider this to be different from riding more "aggressively". When I am tense, that is when I tend to have accidents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 247
Location: Stoketopia, CA
I am really glad you wear a helmet at all times JimW, because you are always doing stuff like this:

Image

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:12 pm
Posts: 1599
Location: Now Oaktowntastic
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Good one L2R!! I'm glad you wear your helmet too!!

Image

_________________
Storn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1619
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
OK, that was funny. But, uh, I totally meant to do that...

PWNED!!

:)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  








Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group