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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 18
Location: San Diego, CA
Alright, enough talk for me. Bomber bails, lugs and lug bolts were ordered yesterday. Dynafit Zzero 3 Px's on their way from France as we speak. I am gonna make this happen one way or the other. I let ya know how it turns out!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 18
Location: San Diego, CA
How much cant do yall think would be desirable? On my apline carving set-up I have 3 degree cants but they are set-up almost 100% toe/heel, not inward. Granted my stance is smaller on that set-up so the inward cant is needed. I am thinking of doing 2 degrees inward on both plates. I am going to the CNC design guy tomorrow to start the process!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:48 am 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:00 am
Posts: 1
Hi,

I ride on DiY plates with Scarpa F1 Race since 2 years. I designed it myself because i want something very light (700g), lower and stronger than the Voilé. If someone give me his mail, i can send pictures for here. Excuse my english, i'm from France...

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:22 am
Posts: 255
Location: The Kootenays
Flip wrote:
How much cant do yall think would be desirable? On my apline carving set-up I have 3 degree cants but they are set-up almost 100% toe/heel, not inward. Granted my stance is smaller on that set-up so the inward cant is needed. I am thinking of doing 2 degrees inward on both plates. I am going to the CNC design guy tomorrow to start the process!
I did 5° inward cant on both pucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1503
Location: Colorado
Flip:

I am running 2.5 degrees inward cant on both feet. I build this into the bindings as I tour with Dynafit toe pieces. When you get your boots, note that they have some cant built into the cuff (non adjustable)-great for tour mode (or split skiing) not so great for snowboarding-the 2.5 degree cants I use are just enough to achieve a neutral shaft angle in snowboard mode. I am thinking of a new mod for the boots: using a stepped hole driller to make additional "speed holes" in the boot tongue-I think I want the top of the tongue to be a little softer, and the holes should achieve that without creating stress risers that might lead to cracking/splitting.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
I might be new to splitting (will post pics of the DIY lib grocer as it progresses), but not to skinning into the BC or hardboot boarding. I've been using plates & plastic for all mountain riding for over 20yrs. Skiing, then Tele was my main focus for resort & BC in the '80s :disco: till I discovered the comfort and control that my tried & true buckled boots gave me on 1 plank. The point being I've thought a lot about the ultimate back country boot.
Modern Rando raceboots are pretty close, if they just had a lateral flex lockout and accepted a stepin heel with a receiver integrated to a split rail I'd be a happy camper.
If the rail edge was thick enough to tap a series of holes in the sides of the rail, intec receiver plates & bomber style toe bails would make for the lightest set-up any where and be adjustable to fit any size boot. Standard bails could also be used on the same holes. Long or short rails with 0* or 3* full length pucks would fit most any size foot or stance preference. Asymmetrically hinged boot cuffs could even be designed to make duckfoot comfortable and be flexy enough for the surfy feel that keeps softbooters in laces & straps.
This won't come cheap; although 2-3 times more durable than lace up boots, high quality ATs are 2-3 times the price. That said, a rail system like that could fit any mountaineering, AT, ski or tele boot.
Here's a pic of my 1st split waiting to happen
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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:16 pm
Posts: 346
This might take us a little off topic but here's what I've been thinking of.
NTN boots http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Scarpa-Terminator-X-Pro-Telemark-Ski-Boot/SCR0094M.html I think this tele boot will give you a nice middle ground on the hardboot performance with a softboot feel.
TLT toe piece for tour with TLT heel as climbing bar. This would allow for lockdown heel skiing on short steep pitches where it's not worth switching over but free heel skiing is to scary (for me).
Karakorum tool box and tip and tail clips.
Now comes the tricky part. Why do we need pucks and slider plates at all? :scratch:
Can we just add a locking mechanism in the middle of the board and have fixed heel and toe pieces for ride mode?
It seem to me that this senerio would keep things out of you pack (which I like) and
A. Get you closer to the board in ride mode
B. Make for a simpler/faster change over

Ideas?

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Jones Solution 164, Fuse baseplates w/BM Bisquits, Salomon Malamutes


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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
I was excited about the NTNs when they came out but I haven't been able to swing $650+ boots & $350 NTN bindings, So for now I'm goin cheap with gear I already have, but a NTN setup will be my next new purchase. I've believed for a couple of years that the scarpa TX could be the ultimate do it all boot, but I think the older 3 buckle TX would be better for boarding. The scarpa f1 looks like the ticket but it doesn't have the NTN sole which surprises me as it's otherwise the same shell as the TX in 3buckles. The bellowed toe is great for uphill but soft for locked down skiing. An easy comprimse for 1 boot to do it all.

I've been brain storming a quick attachment center disc to make a standard plate binding easy to mount in the snow without messing with screws. The grocer I'm going to split has a 4x12 pack of inserts which I will utilize along with new threaded inserts to minimize the need to patch t-nuts. The extra center discs in the pic will be replaced by a channel spanning the width of the board for a solid connection of the 2 halves, similar to what burton(Markus) uses on his 3 piece splits. This is my 1st split and will be po'boy ghetto with parts I already have kicking around the garage.

The new Sparks Blaze base plate could be used with hardboot bales in the same holes used for toe strap and highback mounting. Boot size would limited by the spacing of tapped mount holes in the edge of the plate.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Never thought of using sparks base plates for bail attachment but don't see why it can't work. Though my whole idea is getting rid of pucks and slider system. I was focusing on attaching toe and heel bails directly to the respective halves of the board so that the binding is not part of the attchment system.

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Jones Solution 164, Fuse baseplates w/BM Bisquits, Salomon Malamutes


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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
I thought about this today looking over what gear I have in the shop, but I'm leaning toward removable binding pieces to avoid extra weight
and snow build up while skinning. It could easily be done, mounting toe and heel to each half, but you still need some solid hardware to connect the halves together, especially with the toe/heel mounted to different pieces. I used to like the old burton clamps on a split center disc but I think some kind of plate or channel that mounts at or beyond the center line of each ski will give the split a better connection and more solid like ride feel.
Something like a burton clamp plate with bails mounted to it would be nice and combined with connector bars like on this 3 piece would make for a quick and solid ride mode
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:16 pm
Posts: 346
What if the instep or outstep or both of each indidually attached bail had a slot to receive a pin.
1.Snap board together Karakoram or other toolbox clips (maybe with one in center)
2.Slide pins on inside/outside of bindings
3.Step in an ride

Ideas

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Jones Solution 164, Fuse baseplates w/BM Bisquits, Salomon Malamutes


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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Have you guys seen this thread about the bails mounted to the Spark slider?

The binding already needs to be strong enough to stand up to the forces on it and it bridges across the two board halves. Why not use it to tie the two board halves together and provide torsional rigidity?
The forces on a splitboard while riding are significant and anything that can withstand the torsional twisting forces on the board is going to need to be strong (heavy). Even in that three piece board, the bindings are used in combination with the torsion bars to provide the torsional stiffness.

The two halves of a splitboard twist a lot when under the pressures of riding. Much more so than solid boards. I would be terrified the boot would twist right out of a heel and toe piece mounted to each board half as the board is torsionally flexed itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's design a one piece hard boot binding
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Posts: 378
Location: near munich
you need a skiboard ....

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burton

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