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 Post subject: do you miss the highback?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:19 am
Posts: 47
Location: Norway
I have a quick question for those on the dark side.

I am thining about buying a set of hardboots. For those using hardboots, i have seen some sweet mods from others on the forum about incorporating a highback in addition to a ankle strap to the mtn plates or bomber setup. is it over kill, is it only necessary when using PMB's or would it be a nice addition?

thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: do you miss the highback?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:41 pm
Posts: 68
Location: San Francisco
NorwayBrder wrote:
I have a quick question for those on the dark side.

I am thining about buying a set of hardboots. For those using hardboots, i have seen some sweet mods from others on the forum about incorporating a highback in addition to a ankle strap to the mtn plates or bomber setup. is it over kill, is it only necessary when using PMB's or would it be a nice addition?
thanks.
It is completely superfluous to add a highback with hardboots (PMB's are a different story). A snowboard-specific hardboot with a plate-binding is stiffer and more responsive than any softboot binding combination. That being said, I still tend to prefer softboots and strap bindings (more forgiving, much lighter, easier to absorb chop) in general and especially riding in powder (the feel of a hardboot is very different).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:09 pm 
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Location: Now Oaktowntastic
I've been riding PMBs with the binding mod you mention, known in some parts at 'the BCD mod.' I consider the mod useful for PMBs, but not hardboots. The idea with hardboots is that they are stiff enough that the highback isn't needed. Also, I think you may have trouble getting a standard ankle strap around a hard boot and you might have trouble fitting a hardboot into the heelcup of a highback. I don't know those last two things for sure, though.

By the way, here are a few shots of the mod:
Image
Image
Image

I believe that this is the lightest existing strap & highback setup. I shaved 15.5 ounces per binding (close to 2 lbs off the whole board) in comparison to Mission bindings. They are 8 oz per binding lighter than C60s.

I've had 12 days with this setup this year (it's been meager in CA) and so far I'm digging it. It's as surfy as you could ask for in powder, identical to a softboot setup. I'd like to spend some more time with them in spring conditions, but so far I've had no issues in firm snow either.

Plus you have the joy of a real mountaineering boot on feet for your winter travel needs. Mine have stayed dry and warm on multi-day trips. They accept crampon bales and kicking steps with them is a real pleasure. So the setup works for me..

I wish a snowboard boot company would put a real mountaineering sole on a modern snowboard boot. Then the choice would be a no-brainer.

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 Post subject: lighter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:06 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Mt Shasta
Lonerider wrote:

"I still tend to prefer softboots and strap bindings (more forgiving, much lighter, easier to absorb chop) in general..."

Not sure which strap binding/soft boot you ride but my current set up: mtn plates and Scarpa matrix are way lighter than any soft boot/strap binding set up I've seen or ridden. Weight wise the mtn plates beat straps hands down, the Scarpa's are on par if not lighter than most if not all soft boots.

Not that there aren't plenty of other good reasons to choose one set up over the other.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: lighter
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:35 pm 
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Posts: 68
Location: San Francisco
shasta wrote:
Lonerider wrote:

"I still tend to prefer softboots and strap bindings (more forgiving, much lighter, easier to absorb chop) in general..."

Not sure which strap binding/soft boot you ride but my current set up: mtn plates and Scarpa matrix are way lighter than any soft boot/strap binding set up I've seen or ridden. Weight wise the mtn plates beat straps hands down, the Scarpa's are on par if not lighter than most if not all soft boots.

Not that there aren't plenty of other good reasons to choose one set up over the other.

Andy
Hence why I careful modified my comments to "snowboard specific hardboot" the Scarpa is not a snowboard specific-hardboot like say the Deeluxe or Head boots (or old Burton boots). As I understand it the Scarpa is more of an AT boot. This has nothing to do with the inherent design of hardboots, just snowboard hardboot makers haven't really chagned the design in over a decade (newer molds and materials would improve things).


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 Post subject: Hardboots
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:34 am
Posts: 478
Location: Teton Valley, ID.
That highback mod is pretty trick. I have tried a few different boot,binding combos and have settled on Scarpa's old Laser. The softer top,plastic strap and no power strap w/ Mtn. Plate binding has been serving me well for 4 seasons. Leave in "walk" mode in pow and "ski" mode for hard pack,etc. AT boots are made for skinning and here in the "Hole" we have no shortage of side hilling and it seems to be the more efficent way to go. A couple of seasons ago Scarpa came out with a boot called the Avant that was made of a softer plastic that is popular with a few resort riders here. I run what is considered standered Teton angles,15&5. I know that the hard booters in Avants ride similar angles.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:19 am
Posts: 47
Location: Norway
split therapy, let me ask you this.
Do you miss a toe strap on the laser?
I am thinking about the dynafit two strap ski running boot
http://www.dynafit.at/skirunning_boot.p ... df123f&m=4
, but dont know if the boot holds the front of your foot down well enough.
I know the 4 strap boots are overkill, but wonder if the two strap are too little, at least in the toe box.
The laser was my first choice but they dont make a 32 mondo. hence the dynafit.

My question about the highback setup is also that I could switch between boots, pmb, hiking, hardboot. really liked the concept of the mods i have been seeing, but think i knew the answer about its additional stiffness. :roll:
As far as i can tell the soft boot will always be the staple, Im just getting tired of replacing tired boots every other year, plus the boot pack yo-yo, is just too scary. :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:56 am 
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Location: California
SanFrantastico wrote:
I wish a snowboard boot company would put a real mountaineering sole on a modern snowboard boot.


For all that "real mountaineering" that we do here in cali huh? :wink: :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:59 am 
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Location: California
NorwayBrder wrote:
plus the boot pack yo-yo, is just too scary. :shock:


If you're having trouble with a bootpack (not sure how you would if it is in fact a bootpack with pre-kicked in steps) you might just want to throw a pair of strap crampons in your pack for these times. Then you have some extra grip and dont have to sacrafice softboot descent performance and feel while still being safe (no slips) on the ascent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:04 am 
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Location: Now Oaktowntastic
bcrider wrote:
SanFrantastico wrote:
I wish a snowboard boot company would put a real mountaineering sole on a modern snowboard boot.


For all that "real mountaineering" that we do here in cali huh? :wink: :P


By real mountaineering sole, I mean a stiff sole with crampon bales and maybe a few hard corners to facilitate kicking steps. I don't see how it would be anything but a benefit if the boot otherwise rides the same. I just don't think soft, rounded boots are the best solution for ascending firm snow. Mountaineering or not, the bootpack up Glory Peak on Teton Pass is about as established as they come and there can be spots where the steps are shallow and worn and the snow is hard and steep and I was glad to be able to punch in a little deeper. Saving two pounds off my back was just a fringe benefit. :D But then you're talking to a guy who cracked two vertabrae eating shit down a wet grassy slope!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:10 am 
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Location: Norway
Boot pack round here is one that you make yourself. the lines arent 14,000 foot peaks more like 4000 straight up, out of the sea. but the lines are steep, and dicey.
It means lots of laps.
When your telemark buddy ahead of you, kicking steps in powder and ice with a 400 meter drop below you, is wondering why you look like a ghost, you begin to wonder why. looking down at the soft soles on your feet you wonder hmmm, maybe there is something better.

just looking for some purchase in the sketchee stuff. without having to play the crampon game, which takes more time.

maybe whining, but i like to keep up with the fast boys. and wait for them at the bottom.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:22 am 
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Location: California
Using crampons isn't a game...it's about using the proper gear to keep you both safe and up with the rest of the pack. Also note that having better conditioning and fitness than your partners will help counter some of the slowness (more weight, longer transitions, using crampons when they might not need to, etc) that comes with choosing snowboarding over skiing (ascent-wise).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:57 pm 
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you mean two packs a day and a steady mcdonalds diet doesnt help? :roll:


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