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 Post subject: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
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Location: reno
I have a cambered DIY Salomon Swallowtail with a high turnup at the nose, but want to reshape it to an early rise rocker for better float. Is it even possible? lots of heat, time and pressure? Anyone ever do it? I don't need much rise to make it work. The other option is lopping off the tail like the hovercraft, but I don't want a hooky board either. I'm already setback as far as I can be so that's out. Any suggestions other than the obvious solution of selling it?

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
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Location: Fairhaven
Heat, pressure, and time. I think I saw a write up on doing something like this either at Wildsnow (more likely) or Coldthistle (less likely).

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:04 am
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Location: truckee, ca
rughty - i recently traded a pair of skis with a guy in reno that had a DIY early rise - i connected with him on the backcountry talk forum and he had done the DIY early rise with heat, time, etc. PM me and I'll try to connect the two of you...


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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Bozeman MT/ Woodinville Wa
i rockered the nose on a cambered board, it worked and stayed over time. I built a wood frame that bent the nose much more than the desired rocker. Then wrapped the board in towels and poured boiling water over the board for about an hour as fast as i could bring water to boil. The idea was most boards are pressed around 180f and the working temp of uhmw is 220f so boiling water would be in the right temp zone. My composite research found that if you raise the temp above the first cure temp you can create new crosslinks in the polymer, but not over heat the matrix and break down the epoxy. I had visions of boiling water in a 55gl drum and sticking the bending frame and board into the drum, but it hasnt happened yet. If you had a hot box / oven that you could fit the board into that reached 200f it would work too.

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
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Location: reno
Did this on the fly. Got some heaters with a temp control. These were for the top and one more for the bottom pressed against a sheet of aluminum to distribute the heat.

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Squared it up

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Over pressed it

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Installed the heating elements

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Set it to 100C and turned it on

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Gonna let her sit for an hour or so, turn off the heaters, and let her sit overnight. Hope it works!

edit:

Should've cut a sheet of aluminum for the top too. It bubbled a little forcing me to fill it with new epoxy and clamp it. Also, my temperature and heat distribution was exceedingly efficient causing my over pressing to be a bit much. Filling the delam and repressing at room temp to slightly counter the heat press to mellow out the rocker.

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:53 pm
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Location: Bozeman MT/ Woodinville Wa
nice work, temperature controlled heaters, would be nice to have them sitting around. Where did it bubble on the top? along the center cut?

Do you have before and over rockered and final results pictures and measurements.

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 361
If you are going that far why not just laminate a little carbon fiber on the deck, bend it a bit past where you want it to be, and heat cure it in that position. Or just run a little modern kite line or from a hole near the nose to in front of the front binding and let that pull the nose up? maybe mount a guitar tuning thing in front of your foot and you can adjust the early rise. we'll need photos of that if you do it.


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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:29 am 
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Location: reno
So...I released the clamp and the board immediately delamed in the same place. Next attempt will be to install the heaters again with aluminum sheet on the top too with all hardware removed. Turn them on with out the press and let the rocker mellow out on its own.

The deal with adding extra carbon at this point would only make it stiffer. Its already a 9-10 on that scale, so added carbon would make it more like a 12... I'll post before and after pics when I'm done fixing/fucking up this board. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
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Location: reno
Ok.. here are the pics from the first attempt:

That isn't good!
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Nor this
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shit.....what you can't see is the nature of the delam other than the obvious bubbling.
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the heaters worked so well that the over pressed rocker shape stuck. It didn't settle as anticipated. You couldn't tell from the pics tho
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tried to fix the delam with some epoxy and clamps, but failed as soon as I released the clamps the following day
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Going to attempt to repress again and mellow out the rocker to the proper dimensions with the new setup
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this time I took the time to add a sheet of aluminum on the top along with the bottom piece. Hopefully this resets the delam and mellows out the rocker a little bit to ease the stresses.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 559
Location: Rawesome, BC
Cool project, there are a couple of threads on TGR about doing the same thing with skis. Maybe less heat, more time might be a bit more controlled?


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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
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Location: reno
From what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, you have to heat of above the temp the board was pressed?! I just stuck with the 100c temp controller which is + or - 1c. I placed the probe in a better location this time. I let her sit for an hour again today at work and unplugged it right before I left for the day. I'll see what it did this time in the am. Looking forward to testing it this weekend if all goes well.

I do have a secondary super camber split I would love to mellow out with some early rise and tail rocker. I know for a fact it was pressed at 180c as it was the backwards laid up sentury deck I would otherwise never ride. Been doing bindings for so long its a blast experimenting and learning new things!

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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 361
the fibers on top of the core have probably shattered so a bit of resin won't fix the weak spot, you'd have to sand down to wood and fair in a new layer of glass over the fractured glass to fix it, it might ride for a little bit jest on the strength of the glass on the underside, but the core is pretty thin there so the resistance in compression in the glass on top is pretty important. You might have crushed the wood a bit under that bar also which will probably make the deck composite delam under that dent with a little bit of wood stuck to the glass as well.

I predict you'll be making a full board press this summer, you can't escape :thumpsup:


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 Post subject: Re: reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
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Location: reno
As soon as I have a garage of my own, I imagine I'll have lots more things to play around with! It nice having a workplace that pretty much has been my machine shop, work shop, and all around R&D facility over the past ten years. Many breaks over the course of my workday, early arrivals, and late departures and weekends have been spent there following this passion. As for this deck, I think I'm ready to take what I have learned and start the next deck. Seeing as it is sidewall and a split already, it should be a little more straight forward. No sense in trying to fix this one over and over again. Ill just have to split another solid so i can put the interface to use. :thumpsup:

I'll get some pics up over the next few days of the next early rise attempt.

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