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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am 
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Location: Durango, CO
Good response Russman. And I am a nerd too, not a crazy physics nerd, more of a math nerd, but I get the idea, and from pictures it is hard to get a good understanding of how the system works different then spark. It seems that it is the same pivot principles as sparks, but from what your saying its not. I just thought that the riding interface was vastly improved and tighter and that was the main difference. In which case I really don't think the difference is all that huge, I could get down some pretty good stuff with sliders in the past lol. I can't wait to check out the system in person, hopefully someone whos running it is venturing to the San Juans this winter so I can check it!

In a couple years I may have to retake a look into them when I've used up my Blazes (by then Karakarom will be 150% dialed). For me price was big, buying a board, boots, bindings was just getting pretty $ pretty fast. Considering I already had all previous voile parts, it was much cheaper to go the spark route, and I thought less of a "gamble" with a new system.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:08 am 
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Location: Denver
russman wrote:
Basically, the Karakoram binding incorporates very larger toe-to-heel and side-to-side moment arms that can actually compete with forces coming from the highbacks. In the Fuses, the binding is wide open on the lateral aspects, and thus there is ZERO lateral support; your foot rolls all over the place inside the binding when you're traversing.


Im inclined to agree with Russman on this. While I have not toured with the Fuse/Blaze it does seem a bit sparse in that department.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Location: Kings Beach, Ca
One thing I haven't seen discussed yet, and probably won't until people start putting some time on their karak's is board feel. I'm sure most of you aren't up on this as it tends to be emphasized more in the park world, but board feel is huge to me when it comes to bindings.

I know someone already stated that the big gaps in the karaks didn't affect their riding, but I'm skeptical. I ride SPi's and Delta movements on my solids, and even though the Delta movements have wussy straps (which i have since replaced) their board feel is multitudes better than the higher end SPi's. It is literally a joy when i get back on the Delta's after riding my SPi's and Sparks for that matter to actually feel the snow with that accurate feedback.

Point being, I can't imagine board feel to be any better than the Sparks, and probably even worse than them with all those gaps....this is the same concern I had for the light rails.

My :twocents: for what it's worth, I'll be sticking to my Spark gen. I's and probably getting the Voila, yeah, I'm weird.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:35 am 
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snownskate wrote:
One thing I haven't seen discussed yet, and probably won't until people start putting some time on their karak's is board feel. I'm sure most of you aren't up on this as it tends to be emphasized more in the park world, but board feel is huge to me when it comes to bindings.

I know someone already stated that the big gaps in the karaks didn't affect their riding, but I'm skeptical. I ride SPi's and Delta movements on my solids, and even though the Delta movements have wussy straps (which i have since replaced) their board feel is multitudes better than the higher end SPi's. It is literally a joy when i get back on the Delta's after riding my SPi's and Sparks for that matter to actually feel the snow with that accurate feedback.

Point being, I can't imagine board feel to be any better than the Sparks, and probably even worse than them with all those gaps....this is the same concern I had for the light rails.

My :twocents: for what it's worth, I'll be sticking to my Spark gen. I's and probably getting the Voila, yeah, I'm weird.


That's actually a very excellent point man. Not sure what to say other than people have to find out for themselves :) There are certainly differences between the two bindings. I found my Fuses to feel too "flat" for my liking and the K's to have a much more aggressive power transfer through turns..

Hey let us know how you like that TRS stick! Those boards look RIPPER!

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:09 pm
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Location: Colorado
For those of you in the Denver area and want to see the Karakorum setup on a board, let me know. I'm going to have my Lib Tech Mullet that I split setup with the Karakorum kit except for the climbing bar. I'm putting the Voile dual wire on. Should have the board finished by Nov 1. Just working out a few last details on a test board and keep getting distracted with good climbing weather.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:35 pm 
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Here's some shots of prototype testing from this past spring. Basically, the goal on this day was to try and break the Split30 any way possible... Conclusions were that it still works like a gem even when caked in mud, rocks, pine needles, and ice. You know, just for those of you who are worried about icing issues...

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Posts: 147
honestly, russman, you need to shut up for a day or two

bindings good or bad.....you're being an annoying twat


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:23 pm
Posts: 174
don't see whats wrong with his posts, this is a Spark vs Karakoram thread is it not?


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:41 pm 
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Tap wrote:
honestly, russman, you need to shut up for a day or two
bindings good or bad.....you're being an annoying twat


good one
you are now officially an asshole

well done


Got my Karakorams and plan on testing soon! :rock:


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:32 am 
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Tap wrote:
honestly, russman, you need to shut up for a day or two

bindings good or bad.....you're being an annoying twat


What the heck ELSE are we supposed to do until the snow falls!? :lol: :lol: :lol:

According to NOAA, the Pacific Northwest is about to get POUNDED this weekend! :bananas:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:25 am 
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russman wrote:
Here's some shots of prototype testing from this past spring. Basically, the goal on this day was to try and break the Split30 any way possible... Conclusions were that it still works like a gem even when caked in mud, rocks, pine needles, and ice. You know, just for those of you who are worried about icing issues...


OK, so that is 1 day in the PacNW, what about multi-day outings where you could have overnight freezing issues?

I am not doubting your evaluation, but I personally don't get super duper hyped from 1 person's opinion. So as I posted earlier I am anxious to learn what a much broader rider base observes in terms of their performance. It doesn't really matter for me this season anyway as all the $ I stashed away for gear is going to vehicle repairs :nononno: but gotta get to the hill in order to play. Cheers Russ :drinks:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Posts: 378
Location: near munich
@ russman

first : no agrissiv word s from my to you.

your pictures show s mudy snow - because when the weather change from + to - and the mudy snow frezz on the system - works the system . voile slider ( spark + light rail ) is a slider, the clean his self. i can see the mistakes from the first burton interfaces ...

take a real test .....


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:29 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Bend, OR
EXACTLY BURTON!


It's like 50 degrees F. in that photo. Now take those parts to 20 degrees F. , wind and blowing snow and see how it works. I'm not saying it won't, i hope it kicks ass, i'm all for it. But the predictable, biased feedback is just plain stale. To say that using one binding interface on a 55 degree drop is better than an other is just condescending and kinda uncool. First of all you have to know just at what level rider this info is coming from. The first time i dropped the Lava Glacier HW i used PMB on the old Burton set up. I did just fine and NEVER heel slid and it was firm. Just saying.

I do believe you love the bindings Russman, and they look awesome. But for god's sakes give us balanced feedback. You sound like a poster child.

JL


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