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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Hi Splitters,

For those that noticed, I wanted to let you know I deleted my post from earlier this morning. My thoughts were mainly due to a lack of good communication between both parties and has since then been fixed. It's an exciting time in splitting and the products and options we have are the greatest they've ever been.

:thatrocks:


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:09 am 
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To get back on track:

I checked out Buckchow's new Karakoram set-up yesterday afternoon, whiling away the time waiting for the promised 20+" in the Wasatch.

Two things struck me: A) the system is tight. No wiggles, squeaks or clacks, and B) the tour bracket is a goddamned beautiful piece of engineering. Step in, push down, and go.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:20 am 
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Location: Cupertino, CA
BGnight wrote:
*Stance widths are limited to larger increments w/ Karakorams (they are already in the process of fixing this)


Care to expand upon what you've found out? :thumpsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:41 am 
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singlewhitecaveman wrote:
To get back on track:

I checked out Buckchow's new Karakoram set-up yesterday afternoon, whiling away the time waiting for the promised 20+" in the Wasatch.

Two things struck me: A) the system is tight. No wiggles, squeaks or clacks, and B) the tour bracket is a goddamned beautiful piece of engineering. Step in, push down, and go.



Definitely diggin on the step in function. And the touring bracket as a whole.

One thing I have notice though is its not quite as fast lining up the board halves . With the voile hooks you could slide the board halves together, the K clips you have to line it up more by sight. Not a big deal, probably get it down to nearly the same change over time. Biggest thing will be clearing the inside edge on those icy days, as the k clips wont work if there is build up between the two.

Stay tuned for under the binding icing, i know with my ignitions I had to clear off any ice before sliding it over the pucks, I usually used the slider pin for that. We'll see how much the split30s ice underneath and how it effects the clamp down mechanism....

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:30 am 
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Couple thoughts on the K board clips (not to be confused with tip clips).

Works great on the tail section of the Swallowtail (e.g., there is no tail clip on an ST)
Also, even though the Voile 195 is sidewall on the inner edge, the clips are a bit too snug and pull the halves into a slight keel shape, you'll see this pronounced with the bindings off.

As mentioned in another thread, my Voile Mojo (cap construction) gets all whacked out with the K clips. Partially, because there is nothing for the clip base to lay on, so it can actually be pulled down into the depression created by the two capped inner edges and strike the other board half. And again way too tight! I may simply drill out the holes on one side of the clip to introduce a bit of play....

Lastly, I'm using one clip each on my Mojo and 195 in the tail position only, with a Voile yin yan hook in the nose end. This way I can still slide the halves together. I definitely don't want to fiddle with a cap constructed inner edge in the BC with no way to line up the Karakoram clips. On side wall construction, this is probably not an issue.

I know its not an entire system review but.... :twocents:

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Location: reno
Snurfer wrote:
Couple thoughts on the K board clips (not to be confused with tip clips).



As mentioned in another thread, my Voile Mojo (cap construction) gets all whacked out with the K clips. Partially, because there is nothing for the clip base to lay on, so it can actually be pulled down into the depression created by the two capped inner edges and strike the other board half. And again way too tight! I may simply drill out the holes on one side of the clip to introduce a bit of play....

Lastly, I'm using one clip each on my Mojo and 195 in the tail position only, with a Voile yin yan hook in the nose end. This way I can still slide the halves together. I definitely don't want to fiddle with a cap constructed inner edge in the BC with no way to line up the Karakoram clips. On side wall construction, this is probably not an issue.

I know its not an entire system review but.... :twocents:


I noticed this too with the cap construction Voile, but didn't have time to post it. One possible easy fix would be to send a second clip that extends just a hair longer so the end user can pick which tightness better serves that board. No doubt I would want to refrain from intentionally making any through hole sloppy so water could get into the core. Definitely some good ideas here!!!

Now the stance issue that has been brought up is both board manufacturer related and the lack of ability to micro adjust the bindings themselves. The spacing between the front and rear sets of binding inserts with both different board manufacturers and board sizes within the same manufacturer vary quite a bit. Definitely a manufacturer fix here. I am not so set in stance width yet as I am trying out a bunch of boards before that number gets a little more solidified so no worries here yet.

I like the turn around this thread has seen. Lets keep this up... :thumpsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:59 pm 
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rughty wrote:
I noticed this too with the cap construction Voile, but didn't have time to post it. One possible easy fix would be to send a second clip that extends just a hair longer so the end user can pick which tightness better serves that board. No doubt I would want to refrain from intentionally making any through hole sloppy so water could get into the core.:
:shock: Oooops I should have been more clear, the holes in the clip mounting plate not the board, that would be very bad...

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Just put the K clips on my Rossi, monked DIY, Jeremy Jones and the edges are flush underneath. Yay me!
Someone w/ a brand new Venture PM'd me and told me they had a slight inner edge overlap w/ the K clips too :shock:

I guess monk cuts boards better than Voile and Venture :D


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Location: The land of MO (SLC)
russman wrote:
Have you EVER tried to keep up with AT skiers on long, icy traverses? Dude..... They kick the CRAP out of us in those situations! And I assure you its not because they have a superior technique.

If gear is irrelevant, why don't we all just use Ducktaped Surrels and go back to slider tracks?

The reason AT'ers clobber icy traverses compared to us knucke-draggers has more to do with NOT having 125+mm waist skis under each foot than boot and binder stiffness. I mean, if you want to talk leverage and free body diagrams that is a, if not the, driver on this situation. Granted I can dig in on traverses better on my hard boot set-up but still can't compete with the AT'ers.

This Spark v.s Karakorum debate is silly. I'm just excited to see options.

That and snow is starting to fall and I'll just be happy to schralp some pow soon. I'll be on my crappy old Fuses just trying to make due... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Location: The land of MO (SLC)
Double post :disco:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:32 pm 
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Bgnight worte: I guess monk cuts boards better than Voile and Venture ... realy - thats true
he had more time to finish is cut ..... he build no board, only cutting + mounting hardwear is his job. now this right :thumpsup: for all things is importand time to fix - only fast build is cheap.... china is cheap fast ...and not made in the home contry.... most time spark and kk build it selv this piont it is ++++



markus

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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Location: slc
We each approach this new Karakorum Split30 system with the baggage of our unique personal histories, behavioral quirks, physical abnormalities, habitual compulsions, formative sexual experiences, and random mutations due to radiation. None of us experiences the same universe, so we will not agree on which splitboard setup, ice cream flavor, Wu Tang member, or sexual position is best*. Where I’m coming from, is that I’m curious how the Split 30 compares with a Voile/Spark Fuse setup. The following is the view through my reality tunnel.

First off, props to the Kloster brothers (who I do not know personally) who developed this Karakorum setup. I salute their initiative to take a chance on a homebrew company and expand the equipment options available to us splitters.

Aesthetics
Shit is tight yo. Of course it matters. Black, silver, minimal, strong lines and angles, a few curves thrown in, I like it. Looks good on the board and feels good in your hands.

What it’s like when you’re skinning
If you have the gear, try this test: Put one Fuse-equipped splitboard half on one leg, and a Split30-equipped splitski on the other. Shake them both around. The Split30 is noticeable firmer and more responsive, mainly because the Voile touring setup always has play between the pin and the hole that it’s in. YES I DO want as much lateral rigidity as I can get in tour mode. I want the ski to not wiggle loosely on my leg when I’m skinning. The tighter it all is, the less strain it is on my body, the more confidently I can hold an edge in marginal skinning conditions. The tradeoff, though, is that the Split30 setup ends up a bit heavier than the Voile/Fuse setup (at least by my scale - watch this space for my complete weight comparison showdown, coming soon). And then the new Blaze is lighter still.

The base of the Split30 touring bracket (where the toe of the binder goes) is made of plastic, which is more breakable than metal. There are two plastic “touring nubbins” projections that I imagine would be the weak spot, snapping off if subjected to extreme force, but perhaps your knee would give out first. There are also some small metal rivets and pieces in the lever of the touring bracket that I could imagine breaking. That’s conjecture at this point - it seems pretty bomber. Time will tell if the Spark30 proves as durable as the Voile touring bracket, a time-tested, effective application of the KISS principle.

The Split30 heel risers I received didn’t lock up into place well (after I intentionally skinned through a few snowblowers at Alta in a successful attempt to saturate and ice my shit up – that probably caused it). When I relayed this concern to Karakorum, they indicated that they had received similar input, were on top of it, and are going to be sending out replacements soon.

The Split30 has pieces (the heel stay lever, the ride mode brackets, board clips) that hang over the edge of the board. Makes me concerned I’m going to bash them apart on stuff while skinning. Time will tell. Also the heel straps have those quick adjust levers that end up oriented on the inside of each leg, and I bet will get kicked apart over time and replaced with a nut and bolt.

High heel effect in tour mode
On the Fuse, your foot sits flat in the binder, level with the board, except for the little toe ramp. With the Split 30, the bed of the binder is pitched forward about 2 degrees, plus there’s no toe ramp. I detected a resultant high heel effect when I was skinning on the flats, which I didn’t like. I’d rather have the footbed be flat, it just feels better to me. Also that way you can handle the downhills a bit easier in tour mode – not an insignificant factor in some terrain. Probably could tinker with the heel riser to address this if it remains a bee in my bonnet.

Changing into riding mode
My hands are bit tweaked from an old frostnip episode, so I like to be able to change from tour mode to ride mode while wearing fat mitts. I can do that pretty easily with Voile pins and the Fuses. With the Split30 I had to take the mitts off for both the touring bracket and the heel stay lever. Pushing the Split30 quick-release-style “heel stay lever” into ride mode was particularly tough after I skinned through the snowmakers and there was some snow/ice packed into the nooks and crannies. But it locks together nice and tight.

The actively-clamping Split30 board clips work simple and effectively, and serve to lock the board halves more tightly together, an improvement over the passive Voile “Chinese hooks.”

Riding
I have not ridden enough to comment on this. I imagine that because the Split30 holds the board together a bit tighter with the actively clamping clips, the ride will be that much more responsive. The lateral rigidity of each binding, which I want maximize in tour mode, is not as big a factor to me in ride mode – I don’t mind the play. The straps on the Split30 seem equivalent to those on the Sparks. I like the toe ramps on the Spark binders and would like to see that on the Karakorum.

My socioeconomic status is such that I can support multiple splitboard setups. I’m happy to add a Split30 setup to the family. Spark R&D also makes great gear and have stood behind it. I’m for sure going to check out the new Balzes. Whoops, that’s a good typo though. I meant Blazes. I would be hella stoked to ride a new binder called "The Balzes" though. Speaking of blazing, think I’ll go do that, later.

* (Undecided, Ben&Jerry's Half-Baked, Ghostface, reverse cowgirl)


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 Post subject: Re: Karakorams or Sparks?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Thanks for the informative read buckchow! :headbang:

You're a good wordsmith and I enjoyed the candor. Good stuff.


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