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Splitboard.com Forums • View topic - Karakoram?


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:51 pm 
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This isn't related to the current discussion, but I thought I would mention it...

I've had several opportunities to demo the Karakoram binding, and every time I'm completely blown away.

Initial objective interpretation:

1) 90% of splitboarding is skiing: So far, there simply is no comparison between my Fuse bindings and the Split30. In comparison to the Voile bracket, the Karakoram Touring Interface is far stiffer and smoother, and there are no rattles or grinding sounds. Very interestingly, I can actually turn and control the skis without skins on! This is fantastic because when you are needing to cover a long, flat area that is too low angle to ride, it is possible to "skate ski" out. Further, this means that side-hilling on steep ice is much more secure. Which = VERY GOOD NEWS.

2) Ride Performance: In the Fuse, I get a significant amount of lateral foot roll inside my bindings (this affects skinning as well). In the split30, the lateral support is very evident when powering through turns - you can push into the front or back of the board with a lot more potential force, and so I find myself riding with a lot more fine board control. The toe ramp area (I rode them without toe ramps) seems to give much more positive pressure, and so toe-side turns on ice are much more precise. Lastly, and this might be a personal preference thing, but I simply cannot get enough forward lean out of my Fuses. In the Karakoram binding, I can crank that thing WAY forward. These things, combinded with the heelcup design that goes all the way to the front of the binding, give a very supportive, ultra-high end feel to the whole system. Its going to be very interesting to see what the bindings look like in a couple of years.

Cheers!!

It would be very interesting to hear what other people have experienced with the system; even if just tinkering with it at the splitfests

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:40 am 
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sweet.. I think Bryce and Tyler should hook up a vaporizer to them... to make them THE ultimate binding :thumpsup:

Good to see splitboarding tech is going further and further.... Where the frigg was all this innovation when I was knockin' the shit out of my Burton plates to get the ice out in 03' :scratch:

bastards! :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:00 am 
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I foresee the Karakoram set up making Voile interface and Sparks bindings obsolete. From what I saw, it's that good (barring any unforeseeable problems after the first season of heavy use by the consumer population)
Good job guys in taking the sport to the next level.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:10 am 
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Did you see all the hardware that is in the bindings, probably over 20 nuts and bolts, Get your locktight out and bring a screwdriver, hopefully the final product will have less hardware. I do believe the toolbox style latches are better than the fish hooks thats what I want

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:23 pm 
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BGnight wrote:
I foresee the Karakoram set up making Voile interface and Sparks bindings obsolete. From what I saw, it's that good (barring any unforeseeable problems after the first season of heavy use by the consumer population)
Good job guys in taking the sport to the next level.


I perdict that the twins will not be able to keep up with the demand and Voile and Sparks R&D will pick up the slack. It will be good for everyone!

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:49 pm 
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I've never seen the set-up so I may be speaking out of turn but come on, obsolete? Two smallish dudes have what, a few hundred days on the set up in a maritime climate. What about a big dude in a super cold region?

I'm not saying that the K system is gonna suck, but let's wait and see how this turns out. Sparks are super simple with no moving parts yet the split community has found the weakness in each version.

Good luck to the twins, Will and Voile. I hope/think there's room for all three.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:43 am 
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Yeah, I don't see the Voile system and Spark going away anytime soon. It's a simple system and it works just fine.

That said, the more I look at the design of the Karakoram system, the more I like it. It does look solid. Of course no hands on, I can't really say how great it is for sure. I do think that the Maritime climate it's mostly been tested in is good. That type of snow likes to stick to everything, so a lot of the typical issues should be worked through.

The biggest question is what is going to be the cost. From what I am seeing, it looks like a $600 price tag is not out of the question. Maybe a little less, maybe more. Seems reasonable, but there is also some sticker shock with that...


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:41 pm 
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The jury is certainly out on this system. But I applaud the effort and engineering that is going into this approach, more innovation for splits can only be good in the long run. Considering the initial hype that surrounded the (defunct) Burton interface, I believe caution is in order in terms of jumping to conclusions.
I have not ridden this interface, nor seen it first hand, but I am concerned that the emphasis appears to be on clamping the board halves together? A split interface needs to be stiff, not in terms of pulling the board halves towards each other, but in terms of laterally (and torsionally) holding both board halves in the same plane; force applied to clamping the board halves together will not improve lateral/torsional stiffness, because the inner sidewall is so narrow.
The Spark style baseplate improves performance by being stiffer than the Voile slider plate, and the design of the Voile pucks also contributes to this stiffness by interfacing with the slider plate over a large amount of surface area.
I would love to see some pics which really show how the Karakoram interface supports the board halves laterally and keeps them in plane.
It is clear that this will be an expensive system, how expensive we do not yet know. I do not have any problem with extra expense, as long as the system offers clear performance advantages over what is currently standard, but I suspect that some people may be a little shocked by how much the Karakoram system ends up costing.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Yeah, obviously they're not gonna take over the market in one year, but once the splitboard manu's start giving choices between the two interfaces I think Voile's could get phased out in a few years. Obviously this depends on how the product performs, prices, economic issues, etc...

And I felt these bindings locked on a board. They are more solid than ANY SOLID BOARD AND BINDING SET UP. This is because all solid board bindings are attached by 4 screws close together and Karakorams bindings attachment points are spread out wider.

Sparks are ok, but the ignitions are a failed design and I've heard a lot of bitches from Fuse owners about inserts (?) coming loose. I'm sure Will will continue to improve things however, so I don't see Sparks/Voile just disappearing.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:58 am 
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Well the Ignitions are the first generation binders too. Of course there are going to be some issues. Silly to think otherwise. Same thing is going to happen to Karakoram. No matter how much testing you do, once you get it out to a mass market, a few pitfalls will pop up. Probably nothing serious, but something you try to refine in future generations. Something Spark has done fine. I have a pair of Fuse's and their performance is light years better than the Voile plates. The insert thing, really hasn't been an issue. Though it may become one. If anything, I just wish they didn't use Bent Metal straps. I am less than impressed with the quality of Bent Metal Straps and highbacks. They are serviceable, but that's about it. Plus the straps do break given enough wear and tear. In a lot less time than other companies (like Rome, Union, etc) straps.

Seems to me that the torsional thing could be improved with the karakoram system too. A tighter connection spread out on more of the board should do it. Then again, I haven't found torsional stiffness to be much of a problem with splits. If anything it's the weight of the system, more than anything that annoys me.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:06 am 
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The torsinal ridigity thing would be additionally aided with inside magnatraction. With the toolbox claps pressing the board halves together the serations of the inside edge would interlock. In this case I think that K. has a substantial advantage over the V. system. When I 1st saw the Jones split with this design I was conserned that "drift" in the chinese hooks could infact be aggrivated by the inside edge magna. Long story short though until we all get are hands on them and start beating the shit out of them we won't know how well they work or what duribility they'll offer. Here's hoping
btw I'm with killclimbz, it's weight thats the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Tons of weight can be saved by going to lightweight hard boot, like Scarpa F-1, F-3, or the lightweight options from Dynafit and now Garmont. I saved over a pound from my Spark/Driver X combo by going to modded hard boots, and they tour and ride better than any soft boot setup.
At this point, beyond my hard boot set up, any significant weight savings is going to come from the board itself. Some of the lightweight AT skis from K2, Dynafit, and the new Efficient Series from Black Diamond are amazing when it comes to weight-splitboard manufacturers could easily lose a pound off of most boards with careful materials selection and engineering (more carbon, mixed cores with lightweight woods like paulownia, etc). The challenge will be making a lightweight board that still offers a damp and stable ride, and good durability, but the ski guys have proven that it can be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:16 am 
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^^^That and hard boots suck. Just kidding, sort of.

I'm not really into hard boots. I hate how they ride on the down. Definitely huge advantages there in terms of weight, kicking steps, crampons, etc. Never a bad choice just not for me.

As the weight issue goes, I was referring to the split board interface in general. the V setup ads a lot of weight. It'd be nice to shave some ounces there. Sounds like the K system may actually weigh less so that's a good start imo. Of course if it's noticeable is the question. I also think the K system avoids a lot of the pitfalls of the Burton system, which was crappy at best.

We are seeing manufacturers lighten their boards. Neversummer's splits are using a Carbon fiber wrap that drops a ton of weight. The solid versions of these boards are definitely on the shaved weight side of the spectrum. Voile for the past few years has been making light splits. I expect this trend to continue.


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