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 Post subject: Highback removal?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 28
Hi.

Possibly the dumbest question asked here, but has anyone ever tried to remove the highback off their binding, for touring?

Just thinking, less weight and obstruction for the skin up, and if it's powder for the way down, does one need much more support than today's boots provide?

Feel free to flame me, but if no one has tried this, perhaps an N of 1 trial is in order?

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:35 am
Posts: 151
In the spirit of "Ride/Skin as you will" Give it a shot and report back.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:32 pm
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Location: The Pyrenees, Europe
I ride without my rear foot highback. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:53 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Eh... the highback portion of my binding doesn't add much to the bindings total weight. I tour with zero forward lean. I don't see any advantages only the obvious disadvantages.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:30 am
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Location: Mendham, NJ
If its weight you'd like to save, there are better ways than removing a highback......Try AT boots and Mtn. Plates.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:57 pm
Posts: 4966
Location: California
I'm pretty sure that frail1 is very new to snowboarding in general and even newer to splitboarding so the "obvious" may not be so obvious. Nothing wrong with that which is why he posted the question here.

Frail,
Highback support is a critical component of snowboarding in general. There are two ways to accomplish highback support, the traditional method is with a standard strap binding that has the highback attached to it. The second option is to build the highback support into the boot (AT boots or alpine (hard) snowboard boots). There are many reason why folks choose one option over the other but the bottom line is that you need that highback support regardless of how you get it. Without it, when you make a turn (most noticeable on a heelside turn) you just wont have the leverage to make the turn correctly.

Now, there is also a little bit of grey area with soft boots that are really stiff. If you use them with a binding that doesn't have a highback they may feel like they actually provide enough highback support in mellow terrain. However when the angle steepens you'll quickly be able to tell why the need for highback support is so critical.

As for making strap bindings more comfortable for skinning. Some highbacks have a quick release that allows you to easily "back off" the high back support while skinning. If your highback does not have this feature I would just play with the amount of forward lean that the highback has to find a happy medium between skinning comfort and adequate highback support.

Hope that helps a little mang! :D

Here is a recent thread that might also be helpful.
http://talk.splitboard.com/talk/viewtop ... 3026#23026

ps. For me personally, I just been snowboarding too long to give up the way it feels on the descent. I'm old school and enjoy the feeling of having an stand alone highback on the binding that allows my boot to flex independently from the binding itself. Some snowboarders don't notice this difference or if they do they are willing to compromise it due to the benefits that the AT boots provide on the ascent. If possible, try both and decide foryourself. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:49 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Germany
High backs with forward lean also directly encourage a bent-knee posture on heel side turns, vital on steeper hard packed terrain where the natural and, dare I suggest snowboarding technique rules, "wrong" nervous response is to turn heel side with knees locked straight: the classic precursor to jarring the heel edge off the surface for a few seconds, ending up sliding on your arse with stiff legs out in front of you with the heel side edge now at the ready to flip you over into a headfirst front-side tomahawking descent of death.

But I think frail1 was talking only about sans-highback on the skin up?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:06 pm 
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Posts: 28
bcrider wrote:
I'm pretty sure that frail1 is very new to snowboarding in general and even newer to splitboarding so the "obvious" may not be so obvious. Nothing wrong with that which is why he posted the question here. 8)


Jeez, is it that obvious :oops: .

Well, thank you, Obi-Wan, for the thoughtful response, and to the others that replied. Yes, I think I'll try it, and let you know.

I guess the idea came to me, not so much for weight savings, but to try to simplify the gear. Surprisingly, my very comfortable snowboard boots seem to have the same fore-aft stiffness as my...cough, cough, tele boots...sorry to besmirch the forum, but yes, I'm a diehard telemarker. So because I expect to mostly be in the mountains here in the PNW when there is fresh snow, I didn't think the heelside turn support supplied by the back, would be as critical. I hope to avoid hard snow as much as possible.

I plan to try it with both removed, for the up and down.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:19 pm
Posts: 454
Location: N. VT & Central Wasatch
ummmmmm..... good luck.

anyone remember 'low back' bindings and step-ins from the 90s?? they don't make either of them anymore, and for a reason.

they sucked.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:32 pm
Posts: 28
Location: The Pyrenees, Europe
This weekend I rode my new setup (old Burton S with Voile system). My usual bindings (a pair of old Burton carbon prototypes, with small 3D disks) didn´t match the Voile plates, so I had to mount a pair of Drakes I had.

Being used to ride without the rear highback, I felt kind of weird riding with it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:29 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Reno, NV
vtbackcountry wrote:
anyone remember ... step-ins from the 90s?? they don't make either of them anymore, and for a reason.

they sucked.


They suck so bad that I still ride them and buy them on eBay every chance I get. :roll:

When I first bought step-ins over ten years ago they were better for me than any strap binding I had ever tried. That is prolly not true anymore, but I still like them.

Anyway, back on topic...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:35 am
Posts: 151
knucklesplitter -- I have a pair of old school rossi step ins, are you interested. They have no value to me, I would send them if you paid the shipping.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 28
So several trials completed in deep pnw powder, between myself (a hacker snowboarder), an a 16yr old ripper. There didn't seem to be any issues up or down. A noticible advantage was so easy to step into the bindings, less messing around, I guess lighter, I can't say I noticed any issues on the skin up. The down was in deep powder, will get pics next time.

It'll probably go back on for spring tours, for the reasons stated by others.

So...anyone else willing to evolve a little quicker than the herd? :wink:


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