Splitboard.com Forums

The World's first exclusive splitboard discussion forums






It is currently Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:41 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:22 pm
Posts: 674
Location: Durango, CO
Powder_Rider wrote:
Please consider a shorter width stance and/or cants. I believe the Phantoms come with cants.
I will mess with the cants a bit. I haven't yet. I'm running standard 2.5 on both, and might put the front foot at double that soon. I am not going to mess with my stance width though, because it's worked for years. To me, wider is more stable and I feel stronger. Last year, I ran at 22" in the beginning (1" less) and I was a shitshow. Yeah its small, but my #1 thing was to not change my stance.

I really don't feel the inner cuff issues standing on the board, and normal riding. It is only with a few motions that I feel it. But canting is a good idea and I'll try it out.

As for the eliminator tongue, I'll keep it in mind. I don't mind the flex right now too much. Its very responsive. But I don't quite get how that would eliminate the issue though. Do you have pictures or can explain how a new tongue helps? I feel it is partly because of the top strap is too stiff (its a wire) and doesn't allow for flex after you hit that wall. If the wire was a bit more elastic, it would allow for that flex I am talking about. Another thought I had was increase the forward lean mod, and put something at the top that is soft, so you hit that wall, and it takes longer to compress in to give more of that feel. Either way, I don't think I'll do too much too it, its workable and rides well. Just different.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:10 am
Posts: 1173
Location: Denver
^ I've been thinking about that too, filing down the forward lean plate as much as possible, then adding in some small piece of rubber for a more gradual stop. Hadn't thought about altering the cable to something more elastic. I also may add a very thin shock absorbing pad under the liner, and maybe trying to add some HVAC reflective tape to the inner shell to try and boost warmth a tad.

I think the ultimate boot would have a pivot for lateral flex at the ankle that could be locked off for tour mode. Something like what burton has done here, but with a locking function. http://www.wildschnee.de/media/image/gelenk_02.jpg ???

Nice write up. I have only had 3 days on mine so far. But they are big improvement over the gen 1's.

_________________
Phantom Bindings
Furberg Split 167
Venture Storm Split 166


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1503
Location: Colorado
Hey guys, a couple of notes: The TLT5/6 is produced with built in cant (the wrong way for snowboarding) to make it ski better. If you close the boot buckles and set the boot on a solid floor you can see the cant. The standard 2.5 degree cant provided with Phantoms basically neutralizes the built in cant of the boot, resulting in a neutral shaft position.
Wider stance folks may want to experiment with additional canting, but I would hesitate to go beyond 4 degrees... I use a 22" stance and stock cants, with ~24F and ~5 rear foot angles.
I find a heel lift really helps me achieve a neutral position: that is, standing on the board in ride mode, in my preferred body position, I am not exerting any pressure on the boot cuff in any direction (with my body in a fully neutral position, like where I would be when straightlining). I use about 3 mm of heel lift under the bail block, but this may not work for duck stances, worth a try though. Keffler may be able to provide what you need for a heel lift, again, you do not need much to make a difference.
SG: I would advise you to cut down the medial side cuff of the TLT5 a little as it sounds like you really need a little more flex to the inside. It does not take much to make a significant difference, I take off about 5-6 mm. Make sure the cut is smooth, and well blended into the rear spoiler (keep a nice radius), a jagged cut is bad, as it could create stress risers in the plastic, where it might continue to tear.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:22 pm
Posts: 674
Location: Durango, CO
Looks like I have some homework for the week. :thumpsup:

HikeforTurns wrote:
^ I've been thinking about that too, filing down the forward lean plate as much as possible, then adding in some small piece of rubber for a more gradual stop.
I'll probably run to the hardware store tonight to see what they have for materials that would accomplish this. I am thinking .5cm of material would probably be good to accomplish this, depending on the elasticity of it. My largest thought is keeping that material in there for good. We'll see. I'll report back. If you get there first, let me know.

barrows wrote:
I would advise you to cut down the medial side cuff of the TLT5 a little as it sounds like you really need a little more flex to the inside.
I have a dremel now, just nervous of cutting up the boot. I'll do the cant and see how it feels before the cutting begins. I've been holding this till last mod.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Quote:
I feel it is partly because of the top strap is too stiff (its a wire) and doesn't allow for flex after you hit that wall. If the wire was a bit more elastic, it would allow for that flex I am talking about. Another thought I had was increase the forward lean mod, and put something at the top that is soft, so you hit that wall, and it takes longer to compress in to give more of that feel.


The Eliminator tongue is a memory foam that goes in behind the boot liner tongue:

The Eliminator gives a progressive shock absorption (no more hitting the wall) and added forward lean (+ a few degrees).

Try to find a local ski/boot fitter shop (to carpet test/buy with your splitboard or order from Tongar). For $30 dollars it is a cheap fix that really works for me without modifying new AT boots!

see:
http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/eliminator.html
Image

Quote:
I have a dremel now, just nervous of cutting up the boot!
No mods needed with Eliminator tongue.

Note: I ride Scarpa F1s and F1 Race stock, where the forward lean adjustment is easily change on the outside for the boot.

Concerning modifications (or not to mod) to AT Boots, cants and heel-lift (good suggestions by all). Try to get the boots the way you like them first.
[*]Just try one tweak first, then ride, then try the next tweak/modification AT boots, then move onto stance and cants.

When I first tried splitboarding (I started with HBs and bindings); I had to radically change my stance width, angles and canting (I came from a Alpine Carving Snowboarding background).

_________________
Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am
Posts: 292
Location: a mile high COLORADO
Barrows brings a good point about the boot canting from the factory. If you set up the boot on the ground with your normal soft boot you will see that it leans the opposite way of soft boots. Burton ions use some canting naturally and its around 4* I think. I think the 2.5 ALMOST puts you at neutral with the tlt5. I think more cant would make for more comfort and proper stance position. I'm thinking about keeping the cant at 2.5 degrees and now working the inner pivot of the upper boot cuff to a slotted position so it would flex inward a bit more. Like the hikeforturns pic but not as drastic. I might run my idea by larry the bootfitter as he probably would have some insight into the idea.. and access to the new pivot point I'd be looking for.


I see most people are modding the lean bar in the boot to lean MORE forward, I did end up going a bit forward but I also removed more material DOWN so the boot would stand more upright. I hated how forward the tlts felt when standing around as this is nothing like a soft boot so I removed some material both ways and really like how they feel now. THIS IN NO WAY affected my heel edge ability because they are still more forward leaning than my soft boots. I also use the power strap loosely on both feet and feel it helps avoid this wall which from my experience seems to be the upper shell of the boot hitting the lower plastic and bottoming out. I think the tongue thing would help wear the boot much looser without cranking it down and be padded enough to fill the void of looseness. :scratch: like old school skate shoes with spare tongues..

I think this setup is sick, 22+ years snowboarding soft boots and 6 days on these and Im into it, they can do almost anything, now to really dial out the flex for me. :headbang:

_________________
There's snow somewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1503
Location: Colorado
If you want to slot the medial side of the boot cuff to allow for additional side flex, be very careful and think first! Best way to go is to slot the medial side cuff upwards, if you slot down, your forward lean will also change when you pressurize the rear spoiler of the boot.
B & D has built a better cuff pivot mechanism for the TLT5/6 (see wildsnow.com for details), and I would recommend using this hardware if you are going to drill out the stock rivet and slot the cuff.
But, before trying to slot the cuff, I would highly recommend cutting it down just a little, it is quite surprising how much additional flex one gets just by removing a little material: consider that the cuff gains a lot of stiffness from its form (tubularl), by reducing the length of that tube, it loses stiffness as well. Cutting down the cuff a little also allows the boot cuff to have a little more torsional/rotational freedom, which is nice when pushing the board around at lower speeds, twisting through "turns".

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Comtogether gets it:
Quote:
I also use the power strap loosely on both feet and feel it helps avoid this wall which from my experience seems to be the upper shell of the boot hitting the lower plastic and bottoming out. I think the tongue thing would help wear the boot much looser without cranking it down and be padded enough to fill the void of looseness. :scratch: like old school skate shoes with spare tongues..



Quote:
I think the ultimate boot would have a pivot for lateral flex at the ankle that could be locked off for tour mode. Something like what burton has done here, but with a locking function. http://www.wildschnee.de/media/image/gelenk_02.jpg ???


I have mention this before: My old Burton Mega-Flex Boots had a dial/slot that you could set the lateral flex and tension with a tool-free knob. I wish I still had this boots!

Image

_________________
Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am
Posts: 292
Location: a mile high COLORADO
ebay that shit! :lol: :lol: I don't think slotting that hole would be much If any negative affect to the touring side of things, for me the lower part of the boot shell is so solid and form fitting that even with that upper cuff sloppy loose it tours and sidehills just fine. I need more flexion from the upper cuff that's why IM PERSONALLY leaning towards modifying that pivot joint. I spent many a :doobie: night staring and flexing these boots, I have a couple of ideas already, just somewhat afraid to cut into them. HAHA- Hell if they last me 2 seasons, they are money well spent. so Im willing to try some different ideas. :scratch:


yes barrows only slot upwards.

_________________
There's snow somewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1503
Location: Colorado
Use the B & D pivot upgrade if going for the medial cuff slot mod:

http://www.wildsnow.com/page/5/

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:55 am
Posts: 114
Location: London/Berlin
For future reference, the permanent link to the article is http://www.wildsnow.com/11467/ultimate- ... -ski-gear/

With the rate at which Lou posts articles in couple of months it will be pushed a good few pages back.

_________________
Looking for partner for Chile & Argentina from 10th August to 10th September 2014 Topic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:22 pm
Posts: 674
Location: Durango, CO
I think hardboots are making me an over thinker. Last night, I added 1 small piece to the front foot cant (now 4 degrees front, 2.5 back I believe), and loosened what I normally have do on the top buckle of the rear foot section, and everything feels great on the carpet. Little loose on the back, comfortably snug on front foot. My opinion is your front foot is your turning foot, I do not want that sloppy, but looser in the back should be be fine in most cases. Either way, the pressure on the rear shin is removed during twisting motions, and front foot inner pressure is gone during carpet wheelies. Simple things in life. I didn't dremel anything on the boots, nor do I feel it is necessary right now. Will see Saturday or Sunday how it feels on snow.

Also, went to the hardware store for what me and HFT were talking about for a pad on the forward lean, but didn't find any material that I think was good. I'll keep a look out though to see. Thinking a rubber material that compresses a bunch, sorta like a soft shoe sole or something.

The eliminator is a cool idea, but I'm really a visual person and would benefit from seeing it.

Now off the boot topic and onto the bindings. I have to inform everyone I switched my plates to the Alphas. The Phos ended up being a little too soft for me and I bent a bail block on my front foot. Not quite sure how, either on a drop at the resort or a full day of resort abuse, or maybe a vicious tomahawk (I had a couple of those, bindings stayed in place!). They still worked fine, but John was super nice and sent the Alphas to try. I have 2 days on them, and must say I notice 0 difference riding between the two, so I'm going to stick with the little beefier ones. I still would recommend the Phos to anyone who is light focused, that is going to use them 100% in the backcountry, and not going to be dropping any cliffs. If you want to ride the resort at all, I'd recommend the Alphas to someone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantom Alpha Initial Impressions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am
Posts: 292
Location: a mile high COLORADO
these variables in opinion are what make this whole hard boot thing so interesting. You say you steer with your front leg... :scratch: :scratch: Im confused because for me its all about the back foot being able to pivot and redirect the boards .. direction. we both can shred so obviously both philosophies work :disco:
SG-- what about making the metal forward lean bar out of plastic??? this would make the stop point a tad softer. it would wear faster but when I first played with the boots I just removed those lean plates to see what the boot could do, and went from there. It seemed pretty soft until I filed and reinstalled the metal lean plates..

zero issues with the phos on all terrain, riding as hard as normal and not holding back. cliffs, jumps, log rides, whatever.!!
To bad these are just a demo pair for me :cry: , I will be purchasing a set as soon as John has more made.


Until then I will be back on my K setup, so it will be nice to do a back to back comparison, the k guys where nice enough to modify my split30s to the lighter stronger taller, SL binding with the newer high back design and stronger taller heel cup so I'm excited to compare them.

_________________
There's snow somewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: burton, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group