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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:53 am 
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Location: Colorado
buell wrote:
Looking outstanding, and tough.

These bindings are so much more advanced than I expected to see for a while. Thanks for all the hard work Keffler. I cannot wait to get a pair on the snow.



At first I was just going to see if people would be interested in a binding identical to the one I rode last year. While I personally really like it, I felt like I should try to push myself and see if I could make it way more adjustable.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:39 am 
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Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
summersgone wrote:
John, those look stellar, great work.


Taylor wrote:
Bravo for pushing threshold of innovation, Keffler. Your system looks elegant and, by the videos, very bomber.



That's an awesome looking system.

I know when I've set up previous binding systems together in my living room that the component parts have fit together very tightly, to the point where I've had to muscle things together. Pucks with bindings, clips, fitting boots with bails.
Invariably when I get all these components out in the slack/backcountry and the temperature is much colder as changes with thermal constriction(plastics only, I'm not sure).
From the video I can see a small bit of movement, I would have some concern if this movement were to be any greater in a riding environment.

Your thoughts?
Anyone else, thoughts?

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Jamie May


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:46 am 
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Location: Denver
Solid work John. I look forward to giving these a go this season. So I think I can fit my 28's in a S/M eh? What is the weight difference? See you guys saturday.

_________________
Phantom Bindings
Furberg Split 167
Venture Storm Split 166


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Location: Colorado
HikeforTurns wrote:
Solid work John. I look forward to giving these a go this season. So I think I can fit my 28's in a S/M eh? What is the weight difference? See you guys saturday.


The TLT5 size 28 should be the limit for the S/M. I don't think there will be a big weight difference. The bigger difference is the overall base plate length. I'm going to try to get all that kind of info together and post that up. One change I will be making is filling in some of those cutouts seen in the bindings above. I'm going to error on the side of a little more weight but should be a little stronger. This means that I don't have the exact binding I will be selling until mid October, but I think what you see now is great for knowing what to except the final design to be. If I wait until then to take orders, people might not get their bindings until Christmas. So my plan is to start preorder on Monday and close it mid October. This way I can hopefully get bindings out to people by Thanksgiving or the first week of December.



Any other comments or questions??? I'm running out of runway to make changes, and everyone's feedback has been very helpful and has gone into what I believe have been some really good changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Location: Colorado
For those who might have missed my invitation, if you are in the Front Range area ( I live between Evergreen and Conifer) and want to come by and see these bindings in person, I'm hosting a party at my house this Saturday (Sept 22nd) from 1-8pm. The grill will be hot and for those who want to hang out for food, bring a side to share if you like. Come whenever and stay as long or as little as you like. This is also a good excuse to hang out with old friends and make new ones. For those of you with a family, bring them. A few of us have little ones and they will be running around (ok, mine crawling) have a good time as well.

I heavily value your input and want to know what you all think. I'll have three different bindings setup for you guys to look at. The ones I rode on last year, the S/M and the M/L prototype for this year. You can carpet test them if you like so bring your boots.

If you want to stop by, send me an email and I'll give you more info: jkeffler AT gmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Location: Denver
keffler wrote:
HikeforTurns wrote:
Solid work John. I look forward to giving these a go this season. So I think I can fit my 28's in a S/M eh? What is the weight difference? See you guys saturday.


The TLT5 size 28 should be the limit for the S/M. I don't think there will be a big weight difference. The bigger difference is the overall base plate length. I'm going to try to get all that kind of info together and post that up. One change I will be making is filling in some of those cutouts seen in the bindings above. I'm going to error on the side of a little more weight but should be a little stronger. This means that I don't have the exact binding I will be selling until mid October, but I think what you see now is great for knowing what to except the final design to be. If I wait until then to take orders, people might not get their bindings until Christmas. So my plan is to start preorder on Monday and close it mid October. This way I can hopefully get bindings out to people by Thanksgiving or the first week of December.



Any other comments or questions??? I'm running out of runway to make changes, and everyone's feedback has been very helpful and has gone into what I believe have been some really good changes.


Good to know. Im hoping they will fit on my 25cm waist Odin without having to change stance angles too much for toe drag. Maybe I'll bring that along on saturday.

_________________
Phantom Bindings
Furberg Split 167
Venture Storm Split 166


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:09 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Colorado
HikeforTurns wrote:
keffler wrote:
HikeforTurns wrote:
Solid work John. I look forward to giving these a go this season. So I think I can fit my 28's in a S/M eh? What is the weight difference? See you guys saturday.


The TLT5 size 28 should be the limit for the S/M. I don't think there will be a big weight difference. The bigger difference is the overall base plate length. I'm going to try to get all that kind of info together and post that up. One change I will be making is filling in some of those cutouts seen in the bindings above. I'm going to error on the side of a little more weight but should be a little stronger. This means that I don't have the exact binding I will be selling until mid October, but I think what you see now is great for knowing what to except the final design to be. If I wait until then to take orders, people might not get their bindings until Christmas. So my plan is to start preorder on Monday and close it mid October. This way I can hopefully get bindings out to people by Thanksgiving or the first week of December.



Any other comments or questions??? I'm running out of runway to make changes, and everyone's feedback has been very helpful and has gone into what I believe have been some really good changes.


Good to know. Im hoping they will fit on my 25cm waist Odin without having to change stance angles too much for toe drag. Maybe I'll bring that along on saturday.


I tried to make it such that the s/m would not over hang for the smallest waist I knew of which was a womens split and ~24cm.

The m/l should be small enough not to over hang for a 25cm waist. But, yes, PLEASE bring up you board as I really want to double/tripple check everything and need more boards and boots to test that with.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:55 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
keffler wrote:
Here are some quick photos:






Here is the latest design. Shown is the M/L. Just a few tweaks left.

Image

and link to a video:

http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/j45 ... fandon.mp4





Couple more thoughts....

Looks like the 'puck' is made to adapt to both the 4-hole and splitboard hole pattern?
Possible to get another pair of only the pucks to be able to mount a solid board with the same plate if this works as good as it looks?

The twisting ring on the pin may be hard with a pair of gloves, is there any other type of closure that could be more glove friendly?
A lock down lever like on a bike axel?



Count me in on Monday

_________________
Jamie May


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Posts: 385
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
John, is it possible to get an another set once the snow starts to fly or is the pre-order period it for the year. I will definitely want a pair to try, but I would like to try them before buying a second pair for Rebecca.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Posts: 330
Location: Colorado
whistlermaverick wrote:
That's an awesome looking system.
I know when I've set up previous binding systems together in my living room that the component parts have fit together very tightly, to the point where I've had to muscle things together. Pucks with bindings, clips, fitting boots with bails.
Invariably when I get all these components out in the slack/backcountry and the temperature is much colder as changes with thermal constriction(plastics only, I'm not sure).
From the video I can see a small bit of movement, I would have some concern if this movement were to be any greater in a riding environment.

Your thoughts?
Anyone else, thoughts?


The movement is small but I too don't like it. I have two ideas how to reduce/mitigate this and is part of some small tweaks I'm working on. These new tweaks will be tested out with the parts being cut out this week or next.

About the rings, those are just how the pins come. I replaced those with small cord for two reasons. 1) they were hard to pull with gloves and 2) the would make noise when hiking. The cord held up really well last year. I will send out the rings as back up just encase the cord breaks, you can use the ring in a pinch and they don't weigh much. The cord with a knot at the end was easy to pull with gloves and seems to be a good way to go for me. You can see what I'm talking about if you look at the picture of the first prototype. I feel it's pretty easy for other to do what they want with this. There are a few things that might be a little 'rough' but hopefully the are few and small.

whistlermaverick wrote:

Couple more thoughts....

Looks like the 'puck' is made to adapt to both the 4-hole and splitboard hole pattern?
Possible to get another pair of only the pucks to be able to mount a solid board with the same plate if this works as good as it looks?

The twisting ring on the pin may be hard with a pair of gloves, is there any other type of closure that could be more glove friendly?
A lock down lever like on a bike axel?

Count me in on Monday


*****EDIT****

NO, the interface plate can only bolt down to the split bolt pattern and not the 4X4 bolt pattern. But Yes, I will sell just the interface plate so you can have that part on multiple splits if you like. I'll be working out the price and post that on Monday. Those detent pins are $52 for (4) so they will at least be that much. I know, I wish they were cheaper too.

The detent pin is a small pin that is spring loaded. The ramp on the binding plate pops the detent pin when you put the system together. For disassemble, you just have to pull up on each one. I usually pull up on one and then put just enough twist so it stays up, then pull the other one and then the whole thing twists freely. Takes a little bit finesse, but this is identical to what I did all last year and it work pretty good. The only issue I had with the detent pin was it came apart because they didn't put locktight on it from the factory. I will be doing that to each one so you guys will not have to worry about that (using locktight RED!)

About doing some other system for locking it in place. I'm all ears, but this was the best I could find/make/buy/design and keep the system profile really low. Even with these detent pins, they stick up a bit higher than the heel and toe blocks but since our boots have a rubber sole, its not a problem. However, it does booger up the sole just a bit. I personally don't think it's a problem, but I will show you guys. I don't want any "surprises" for you guys.

I'll post a video of how to mount the system on your board soon. I think this will help to clarify things and serve to help people once the get the binding and need to set it up.



buell wrote:
John, is it possible to get an another set once the snow starts to fly or is the pre-order period it for the year. I will definitely want a pair to try, but I would like to try them before buying a second pair for Rebecca.


It would be great if I could just sell them as people ask for them, but I can't financially do that as I would have to pre-build and pay for the binding ahead of time. In the future, when the "Phantom Binding Co" functions less like a phantom company and more like a real business, this will change of course. Until then, I have to build them in lots as people pre-order. As I'm sure you guys can understand, if I get two bindings cut out, I pay a lot more than if I get 30 cut out at the same time. This is why it has been so expensive for me to do the prototyping. One or two at a time = $$$$$.

My thought is to give everyone a discount for taking the plunge ($50 off) for this first order. Hopefully everything goes well and more people want them. I plan on creating a waiting list and once I get enough people (20-30) to make it cost effective, I'll build another round of bindings. I'm thinking this could happen around Feb 2013. The price will go up then as I need to start paying off the investments made and this will take a while. It's been more expensive than I first thought (isn't it always like that :roll: ). Plus I really don't want to be working in the garage building bindings during the season. The winter is very precious to me :D I think I have the tolerance to do it once during the season. I'm like you guys, I love to ride!

Keep the questions rolling and thank you for the feedback!

-John


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:20 pm
Posts: 312
Wow this system looks awesome, I wish i could do more than just give props. I am sure within a couple of years that you will be hearing from me, when i have a grand to spend on boots and bindings. Hard to make the switch when what i have works so well. Just not as well....


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:56 pm
Posts: 40
Keff,

In the video, it looks like there is a little wiggle or play rotationally. Is that something that you notice or experienced in your setup when riding? How strong are those pins, could a torsional or rotational knock to the board cause the binding to come off?


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 Post subject: Re: Hardboot specific binding
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:24 am 
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Location: Colorado
Cadderly wrote:
Keff,

In the video, it looks like there is a little wiggle or play rotationally. Is that something that you notice or experienced in your setup when riding? How strong are those pins, could a torsional or rotational knock to the board cause the binding to come off?



Cadderly,

The setup I rode last year had a little bit of play, but it was very small, much like what's seen in the video. However, I never noticed that when riding. I've got a few ideas to get rid of this. The pins are stainless steel and I highly doubt you could twist your foot hard enough to break one of them, yet alone both of them and then have the binding release from the board. Like Barrows said, if it does break on you, I think you will be glad it did because otherwise I think it would mean that your knee will be in pieces.

-Keffler


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