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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:53 pm
Posts: 12
I bought the same set up as well the Jones solution 154 and the Karakoram bindings. I had a really tough time getting the bindings on the board and keeping the board flush. After a few emails back and forth with Bryce, we've concluded I needed to shim the interface so everything would be flush. Day 2 of light touring, I find the interface already wearing down the board and the split clips bent. Either the KKs are going to break or the board will go first and I'm not willing to find out on a big BC trip.

I really wanted to love this whole set up and spent a lot of time taking the set up out west to different shops to see if I could get a second/ third look to see what's going on.

But, I'm thinking about going over to the Sparks now, just because it's easier to use then trying to figure out every time what's going on with the KK's.

Maybe next year... it'll be much more polished. I think it's great the brothers of KK are willing to listen to our problems directly.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 675
Location: Kodiak, AK
SnowStoked wrote:
I had a really tough time getting the bindings on the board and keeping the board flush. After a few emails back and forth with Bryce, we've concluded I needed to shim the interface so everything would be flush.

I am having a hard time getting the forward pin to find the toe base plate slot while the board halves are flush. Everything seems fine at home in my shop, but on the mountain stuff just doesn't want to line up consistently. At first I thought it was snow interfering with the board halves lining up co-planar, but now your post has me curious. What sort of "shimming" did you do? Maybe that would get me to where I need to be with mine.

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:53 pm
Posts: 12
Bryce has some clear shim material that you can probably get from him. Otherwise, I had a friend who just cut up some old credit cards and placed it between the board and the toe plate. He drilled holes in the shim material so that it would be held together by the screws in the base plate. He filed a little bit of the toe slot so that the pin would slide in much easier when the lever's locked down.

But after all that work, I got the board closer at home. On the mountain, I have to bang the lever down to get the bindings to lock and the board isn't flush anymore. I also made sure to clear as much snow as i can off so it'll take a bit better.

But, all this work and maintainence on the mountain and I've only been on very mellow light tours so far to test the set up. Think about less then 1000 ft vertical on green terrain. It's super dishearting because I haven't been cheap on gear in hopes that maybe I'll find something that let's me keep up with all my ski buddies. But I'm still the one with the slowboarder nickname.

Either way, it's really the chance we take as early adapters of any new gear. And the KK's have a great concept, so hopefully the product becomes more polished as more users give feedback. I'm willing to wait to see maybe down the road there will be something better.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 675
Location: Kodiak, AK
Thanks for the detailed info. Once the other new parts arrive from K I will make some thin shims and give that whirl to see if the bindings go together more smoothly on the mountain. I gotta say, the sparks have been treating my fine while I wait... :)

Image

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:44 am
Posts: 197
Location: Vancouver, BC
I agree that a new company will experience some bumps along the way...and there's no way you can get your product perfect the first time.

But I ride with irishgav, and his karakoram bindings blew up after 4 days. And not just 1 part of them, but 2 independent parts. To me that is not a lemon in manufacturing. I am not hating on karakoram, but instead my point would be that if you aren't rich and you want your stuff to work, don't buy brand spankin' new products no matter how innovative and awesome they appear to be. Let somebody else (pros getting free stuff and gear whores on the interwebs) ride them for the first 2 years of production and figure out all the problems. The reason spark has the market right now is because they have been around the longest and have the most R&D into their products to end up with a reliable product that works effectively. Maybe not the best, but I would rather have something that lasts than something that doesn't.

I have no doubt that karakoram will fix the problems in design and/or manufacturing that we are seeing, but it will take a few years. And until then, I wouldn't bother spending money on it. I advise the same thing with everything else too: cars, mountain bikes, etc...sure there are lots of great innovative ideas out there, but sometimes they don't work out. I also agree it's great to see competition in the industry, and it's awesome that this new stuff is coming. But we can't expect it to be perfect the first time.

I know the voile puck system is old and has never really changed, but who cares? It works. And if you are going to tell me that the few hundred grams you save on fancy new stuff is work an extra $300 bucks, just try taking a bigger dump in the morning before you go riding or drink 1 less beer the night before and call it even. Your splitboarding life won't depend on a little bit of weight on your feet. Let's be honest, most people on splitboards don't even go out and ride enough vertical to even notice a difference in a day...


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 8:05 am
Posts: 1516
Location: 395
wait, if you broke just one of your outside brackets how could your binding come 'off the board' when you still have two pins and a toe piece holding the binding on??? did it really 'come off' the board completely or just partially?


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm
Posts: 880
Quote:
So this is the first ever incident of a Karakoram failing (from a guy who broke an LT pin his 3rd day inserting it in a hole!) and people are bashing them and automatically jumping on Sparks' nuts with their edison system which no one has even seen how it works or ridden (the DIY aspect of it is pretty cool). As I recall when the Ignition binder came out it was failing left and right. The WHOLE FUCKING BINDING WAS BREAKING (mine included). I know respected posters on here who went through MULTIPLE Ignitions from the entire baseplate fracturing and breaking!! You really think the two smartest guys in splitboard R and D (Bryce and Tyler) aren't gonna perfect what little flaws their system already has??? Spark started the revolution but I don't see why they're the only one's who get respect. The karakoram interface is proven and works beautifully. Now it's gonna just be a matter of preference for people. I prefer Karakoram mainly cuz their binding is better than the Blaze in riding performance. If Spark actually designs a binding that rides well (my opinion) with the edison and it's proven to be a bomber interface then I'll consider it. I'm just amazed at how much skepticism Karakoram got when they came out and everyone is already hailing the Edison system as the greatest thing since refrigeration.


BG your 500 post in the last two days have been hillarious. If you want a catchy nickname that bad we can give you one. I enjoy it, keep em coming. My only comment is how come when I post sarcastic off the wall shit like this I get told to get off the "soap box" and kicked into the "outta bounds" forum. :scratch: Let us know how your THIRD day on em goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 308
Location: kelowna bc canada
I like karakoram as well as light rail and sparks. You can be riding my mom for all i care as long as you keep up to me. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:48 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 8:05 am
Posts: 1516
Location: 395
UTAH wrote:
BG your 500 post in the last two days have been hillarious. If you want a catchy nickname that bad we can give you one. I enjoy it, keep em coming. My only comment is how come when I post sarcastic off the wall shit like this I get told to get off the "soap box" and kicked into the "outta bounds" forum. :scratch: Let us know how your THIRD day on em goes.


Lol I don't have many days on mine (more than 3) but I personally know people that have hundreds of days on their garage made prototypes ridden in bounds and hucked off table tops in parks and not one thing has failed.

Plus I wanna know how this guys binding supposedly came completely off when it seems physically impossible looking at my pair. Something else would have to break besides that one bracket. If just that bracket broke the binding could not have come off the board theoretically. I just think there could be an exaggeration going on scaring people into thinking your K binding is just gonna blow up and come completely off the board. I don't doubt his failure of course, I just want clarification on what happened cuz I'm not seeing the binding coming off as being physically possible from what I'm looking at although I could easily be wrong.
People can keep riding their Fisher Price bindings with fancy spackled paint jobs if they're into looks. I pay for all my shit so I have no horse in this race. I just have very biased opinions on what shit is better and K makes the best bindings if you're into riding/touring performance. If anyone thinks a Blaze (lightrails don't belong in the same paragraph) rides as good as an SL they have no clue what they're talking about and I'll challenge them to a chinese downhill down K12.....after my hemmorhoid heals.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:40 am
Posts: 6
Location: London, United Kingdom
This is my first time posting in this forum and I am a complete noob to Splitboarding, so forgive me if I say something daft 8)

After saving my cash like crazy I have just bought my first set up, which is more or less the same as IrishGav's Karakorams Split30 /Jones Solution (164cm as I am 210lbs 95kg).

And I am a little dismayed to read that his bindings have broke. Even though this does sound like a one-off anyone else heard or experienced the same or any other issues with the Karakorams?

Is there any anything I ought to be aware of in particular?


I am hoping to use the set-up over in Tignes & Les Arcs (France) which is experiencing its best snow conditions for the past twenty years, so I hope I will not have to do too much piste bashing and I'll gladly post my observations with the system afterwards, if anyone is interested.

I have to admit that I am a little gutted that the Spark R&D Edison binding system has just been unveiled as I would have loved to have taken a look at them before parting with so much cash for the Karakorams.

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Jones Solution 164 '11/12 & Karakoram Split30


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Chamonix
So i had a play around with the Karakorams to see what BGnight was talking about,they are off my board now.
As soon as 1 of those ears are gone,the heel is completely free to lift up and come free from the back plate,1 pin through 1 ear wont suffice.
Then the front looks to me to be full locked in,picking it up and waving it about shows it should have stayed on the board.

I did find another bend in the front toe plate,so something did go on down there to make my foot come free.

Image

Did the latch come undone when i caught the alder bush? - possibly,the ear is directly below the latch,it could have knocked it open.

Although BGnight believes there is a conspiracy to bring down Karakoram with bullshit stories,i'm afraid i have better things to do with my life.From further inspection i found yet another bent part on my Karakormas,thanks BG! yet again you have helped me concrete my decision to send this inferior product back and get my money back.

And to clarify I did think these bindings are better to ride with,I found them to be extremely responsive and the perfect stiffness for me.But I lost trust in Karakoram after what happened

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 59
Location: Colorado
This is my first time posting in this forum and I am a complete noob to Splitboarding, so forgive me if I say something daft

After saving my cash like crazy I have just bought my first set up, which is more or less the same as IrishGav's Karakorams Split30 /Jones Solution (164cm as I am 210lbs 95kg).

And I am a little dismayed to read that his bindings have broke. Even though this does sound like a one-off anyone else heard or experienced the same or any other issues with the Karakorams?

Is there any anything I ought to be aware of in particular?


Just make sure the Ks are adjusted properly and that you use lock tight, you should not have a problem. i ride my bindings everyday and because of the shity conditions in Colorado this year, i have a lot of time spent riding them on hard pack including hard landings in the park. I am not easy on equipment and i am not a slacker when it comes to riding. i have full confidence in their product. Have fun with the bindings and dont worry about them. I get to use my split set up for work (lucky me!) and have a lot of hours touring in them.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram breaking after couple of days
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:29 am
Posts: 584
Location: Oregon
I don't dispute your experience, having a binding break in the field is a scary experience, especially in ride mode. That said, however, I think it's important for other users and/or prospective users to know that the Karakoram system does work and works well. I've been riding it for over a year and logged many days on both the Split 30's and the SL's in a variety of conditions. It's by far my favorite for both ride mode and skinning, and I've used everything from the Voile sliders to the Ignitions, Ignition 2's and the Blazes. As has been discussed before, there will always be cases of gear malfunction in some fashion (that's why companies offer warranties, etc.) and all companies have had and will continue to have gear issues. To say that a product in general is inferior however, is a bit mis-leading in my opinion. I'd definitely agree that the set you ended up with were inferior though, and I feel your pain to that end, and can understand why you're moving to the Sparks.

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