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 Post subject: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:25 pm
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I just got a pair of tlt5s, the main reason was for AT skiing. They uphill so well that I decided to switch from softboots (k2 clickers which I really loved!) to hardboots. I don’t want to mod my boots as I will AT ski in them. I’m still experimenting in snowboard mode to get the right feel going down. So far I’ve found the best is to have the front boot in downhill mode, but the top buckle not attached to the cable at all (to maximize forward lean, just like a highback binding). The rear boot I’ve left in touring mode to get good freedom of movement front to back and side to side, I think this will work well in soft snow but in hard snow I can see my heelside washing out as there is no rearward support. It’s a nice loose surfy feel. I’ve only done one run trying a bunch of different variations so it’ll interesting seeing where I end up. With the rear boot in downhill mode I find it really rigid and not a nice ‘feel’ for snowboarding, if it gets really steep and icy I could see me going into this mode for extra support.
I could see a rear cant helping improve the feel. Don’t think I need it when the rear boot is in tour mode as it feels pretty good but definitely when the rear is in downhill mode it would be nice. Do they make cants in the voile slider pucks? Or just a general cant that I can use between the slider plate and binding? I’m using the voile mtn plates. I did try and add some thick washers in between the slider and binding on only one side of the binding, I didn’t have the chance to test it but it looks like it might work, it does look pretty Mickey mouse though! Problem with that is there’s a left vs right binding which is a bit more of a pain when switching., it would be nice to have the cant in the pucks instead. I haven’t received my TLT adapter yet and think it would be pretty goofy to ski uphill with a canted binding.
Seems like most of you don’t use the voile mtn plate, is there any reason why?


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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:33 am 
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There are threads devoted to the TLT specifically and Scapra HB's with much talk of modification...

I spent last season entirely in Scarpa F3 and Voile Mountain plates, mostly on a 195 swallowtail... I ride trees and bowls and like to go fast. I'm no mountaineer.

I'm definitely in the minority when its comes to modifications...
The only modifications I've done are lowering (cutting) the high side of the boot cuff and removing the power strap. Honestly the cuff mod didn't seem to affect the ride one way or the other.
The only thing I miss with HB's is the amount of locked forward lean I get with strap bindings and soft boots. None of the mods I've seen appear to address the 'locked' part. Most forward lean mods appear to be for range of motion (e.g. being able to bend the knees more), as opposed to heel side torque.
***NOTE anyone feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted the lengthy thread on Scarpa Mods.

The only time I've been sketched or uncomfortable on this setup was on a 1500', 35+ crust and ice slope at the end of a long day with darkness approaching. Lets just say hop turns on a 195 with heavy legs sucked. I was way to gripped by the ice and lack of forward lean to open the throttle and try and shred it :shock:
The other slight annoyance is tight stuff like singletrack trails, with uphill traffic.. This I attribute mostly to ice and the 195, not the hardboots.

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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Duff, hope this helps, I too made the transition form the clickers (which where pretty sweet) to the HB and not looking back.

Here is a link to the mod I shared on the forward lean viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9644
The big thing that this mod does is still lets you "lock out" the cuff so you can ski and the "slot" provides movement with the "high back like" support we are used to. (note the slot and hole in the pictures) It's like having the best of both worlds. I studied others that have done this mod in great detail before doing it my self but now that it's done I wonder why it took so long.

I have replaced the tongue of both boots with webbing for max flexibility and generally have the top two buckles in walk mode. Then just engage the walk/ski lever on the boots as needed. I have to crouch down hard to make sure I'm in the slot for board mode but easy to tell since it feels much like a traditional binding at that point.

Have had the chance to ski the set up a number of times and works great, you are however in the most upright position (of the 2 stock positions) for locking out the cuff.
I'm not a strong skier so it does not bother me to be a little more upright.

The big one that you should consider is putting those mtn plates in your pack on the way up hill and get some dynafit binders installed on your board, this is the next step. You can then put a dot or mark on one of the bindings so you can easily ID them for placement on the board once you have a cant solution that you like. (I'm still tinkering on that one too) Since you do not have to reposition the bindings back on the board it shaves a little more time off the transition :thumpsup:

I took the hole dynafit thing a little further as a couple of others here have too. It's nice not having to do a yoga pose to choose between heal lift positions. Here is that link viewtopic.php?t=6843

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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:09 am 
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Location: New Castle, Colorado
McDuff; I say continue trying the "varations" without the modifications to you new boots; since your trying to use your new TLT-5 boots for both AT skiing and Splitboarding.

I ride stock Scarpa F1's and the only "mod" I have done is to add an "Eliminator Custom Tongue" shim which has solved some boot fitting issues for me and also has soften forward-lean for me.

see: http://www.bootfitters.com/oldsite/eliminator.htm

I agree with Hyzerbomber and get some Dynafit toe pieces and Sparks adapters:
Quote:
The big one that you should consider is putting those mtn plates in your pack on the way up hill and get some dynafit binders installed on your board, this is the next step. You can then put a dot or mark on one of the bindings so you can easily ID them for placement on the board once you have a cant solution that you like. (I'm still tinkering on that one too) Since you do not have to reposition the bindings back on the board it shaves a little more time off the transition
.

Canting the plate bindings can be accomplished through modifying a SNOWPRO Race Bindings to a Voile Plate binding, or use the Bomber Sidewinder Split-board binding http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/splitboard.cfm. Although heavy, I would recommend the Sidewinder bindings.

Barrows posted "Dynafit TLT 5 Mountain, WOW!" http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10958&st=0&sk=t&sd=a. This thread has a lot to say about the TLT 5 boots and modifications.

Modifying boots is a personal preference; there is a lot of good advice for doing so. But for me, I am satisfied with the stock F1s.

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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:00 am 
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Location: Surfing or Splitboarding Downunder
mcduff
I did last season in a pair of Scarpa Spirt3 boots.
I not heading back to softies for a while!
I did no mods except removing the power strap for a few trips.
The only thing I did was get the shell expanded to suit my foot on the outside.
They have intuition liners and molded foot beds.
I made some cants for the rear pucks and played around with the amount of cant.
No real definitive outcomes on cant angle as our snow is pretty bad :cry:
Next year I'm on Garmont Masterlite boots, they are heaps lighter and less volume, hope they keep my feet warm enough.
I used Voile bindings but have a pair of the first bomber bindings to try next year and some other hybrid ones I've made.
The bomber bindings are also a bit heavier than the voile ones.

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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Posts: 291
Location: kelowna bc canada
try looking at my mod for the tlt5 boot in barrows thread. You can pop the plate over the hole in or out depending if your skiing or boarding. Ive been leaving the heel lock open and have been likeing it so the only thing you need to do is get abit crafty with the plate. pm me if your more interested in the mod


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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:13 am 
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It is an awful lot to ask for a single pair of boots to be ideal for skiing and snowboarding... I would not be happy with the TLT5s without mods to allow the forward flex to be easier when the lean is locked in, and I also want to have forward lean for solid heelside performance. See the threads on the TLT5s for more details, as there is no need to repeat the information here.
I find a little (just a few MMs) of heel lift is really nice, as is a few degrees (2.5 in my case) of medial cant. One can cant the bindings, and then use the Dynafit toe pieces for tour mode. Dynafit toe pieces give a huge advantage in tour mode.

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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:25 pm
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Thanks for the replies. Very useful info indeed. I got lucky
and had a buddy that had some surplus dynafit toe pieces, im just waiting to get my spark adapters in the mail. Can't wait!

Vapor, with your plate installed does your boot basically not go into ski mode at all? It is only your added heel stop that provides support.

It seems like having extra forward lean is key. My idea was to acheive something similar by to not attaching the top buckle at all but having the leaver in downhill/ski mode. Has anyone tried this and have any input on how they like it? For long toe side traverses i could see this being a little rough but from my limited experiences it seems not bad.


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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 291
Location: kelowna bc canada
When i have the plates installed the pin just rides on top of it and doesn't engage. Easy to pop out and revert back to ski boots.
Also did another mod to stop the boot flexing on the heelside edge but that one is optional.


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 Post subject: Re: getting the right tfeel in hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:38 am 
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Location: Colorado
There are a lot of ways to achieve more forward lean. See the "TLT5 Wow" thread for details of Karkis's ideas, here are a few more:
I run a few MMs of heel lift on the rear binding, this increases the lean angle. One could also make a new lean adjuster plate (drill out the rivets, make an entirely new plate, tap it, and hold it in with mushroom head machine screws). A simple way to get more lean is to shim the spoiler area of the liner with boot fitting foam. I am going to get a pair of Intuitions molded for my TLT5s, and when I do this, I will lean forward aggressively during molding to allow the liners to mold to more lean.

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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