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 Post subject: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Kodiak, AK
I decided to be a nice guy and get my wife some chi-chi bindings for this season. She's on Ride LX bindings on the Voile slider plates right now. She really likes the bindings/straps, but they are very tall off the deck and taking her gloves off to deal with the Voile slider pin is not the greatest when it's cold out.

She has a Voile Mojo 154 which she LOVES. It is full cap. Supposedly the K clips pull full-cap boards together in such a way that they sort of pucker/flex the board halves since the constriction force is well above where the two inside edges meet. Also, the overlap of the K Clip halves barely meets the cap, so I would worry about damage to the edge of the cap. For that reason I did not order any K clips. I know Karakoram states "it is recommended that Karakoram Splitboard Clips be used with the Split30 System."

Well, I slapped some Split30s on her board and it turns out that I was not even able to assemble or dissasemble the halves of her board with the Chinese hooks installed, because of the way the binding base plates interact. The tab-in-slot nature of the base plate overlap causes interference when you try to slide the board halves relative to each other to separate the Chinese hooks. So my first question is, has anyone successfully run Split 30 bindings with Chinese hooks? Shouldn't Karakoram state plainly that you CANNOT run their bindings with Chinese hooks if that is the case (instead of just recommending using K Clips)? Or, do the K clips work well with full cap boards like the Mojo? Is anyone riding Split30 bindings on their Mojo with or without the K Clips? The kit with clips is $20 more than the kit without, but the aftermarket clips cost $50. Wha...?

Next, it seems that the Split30 base plates only allow a rear foot forward angle of +5 degrees. Is that seriously the limit? That is ok for her since she uses a +5 rear foot angle, but if I were to get some K bindings too, I like to run an old-school-all-mountain +10 degrees. Not possible without a lot of dremeling?

Lastly, is the bar on the heel risers seriously that wobbly? They make the Voile's look rock solid by comparison. There is a huge amount of free movement possible when you raise the heel riser. And yes, the heel plate is firmly screwed down.

Anyway, my current choices seem to be ditch the Split30s and keep her setup the way it is, or try the K clips on her Mojo. I was thinking of going Split30 too, but not if I am limited to a +5 degree in the back. I have a Prior Khyber and a Mojo as well. If the K Clips don't work on the Mojo then I would also be disinclined to run the Split 30s since I would want the same setup on both boards, given the choice.

TIA for any useful insights.

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:44 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Cupertino, CA
I'm not sure about the K clips on the mojo, but I can answer the angle question. I didn't get my wife the K clips on her mojo for that very reason and she's on some of the Blazes that Spark was blowing out over the summer.

You CAN run rear angles greater than +5. You need to tell them when you order if you are goofy or regular and they will give you two of the same ride mode "foot". You'll then be limited to -5 on the opposite adjustment. If you want both, you'd need to buy an extra ride mode.

Keep in mind your stance width and whether you can get positioned on your board where you like it. 1" adjustments only at this time and didnt work for me so I sold them and I'm on some Burners for this year. I could get my stance correct with the Sparks. I hope they perform as good as the Karakoram's did.


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Kodiak, AK
I thought about the "getting two front brackets" solution after I posted. That would seem to be the answer. I bought them from Mountain Gear for the lifetime warranty, so I guess that's the downside to going with a retail reseller: no custom options. I will mount them up again and see if I can fiddle the halves apart. The tongue/tip of the heel binding plate nests inside the toe plate far enough that the two board halves can't slide lengthwise in relation to each other, so I can't get the Chinese hooks to disengage. I'll spend some more time fiddling with it. And after the holiday I'll email the Karakoram boyz and see if they want to swap me plates, if that would help.

I'll post some pics of my issue tomorrow.

Cheers, and happy turkey day.

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Kodiak, AK
Ok, here's my problem.

I put the base plates on my Mojo. With the plates correctly positioned, you can see how the aluminum heel side plate (on the left) protrudes into the vertical slot on the steel toe plate (on the right). In order for the Chinese hooks to release, I have to begin by sliding the board halves in the directions I have indicated with the arrows:

Image

This is obviously not possible due to the interference. I would need to cut a large portion of the heel plate tab off so that it could slide past the toe plate slot. While this could be a (crappy) solution, it introduces another problem. Namely that the small tab that sticks into the toe plate slot is the only thing providing overlap to the board halves which keeps the toe side from being able to rise relative to the heel side. The retractable pin on the binding itself that gets pushed into that slot prevents the heel side from rising relative to the toe side, but it does nothing in the other direction (because the toe base plate slot is open on the bottom). Only that tab keeps the toe side down, so it must stay. With the full cap construction, it already only touches a scant millimeter or two of deck, and would probably eventually lead to the deck getting damaged.

Image

I really cannot see any way to make the Split30 bindings work on our Mojos. Can't really run K clips due to the cap and hulling effect, and the Chinese hooks don't work with the Split30 base plates in our case.

Looks like these are going back. It's a shame.

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:44 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Cupertino, CA
I just looked at a pic from when I had them and there is a lot more overlap on a sandwich board, whic is what I would expect. Maybe call/email them and see what they suggest before sending back?


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Kodiak, AK
I emailed Bryce and he responded today with a nice note, but it seems I am pretty much SOL, and he didn't address all the questions I had asked. The only thing he mentioned specifically was that the tooth on the heel plate that sticks out and overlaps the toe side half of the board will eventually damage the top sheet/cap, and that they had played with solutions but had not come up with anything elegant. All I can gather from this is that it seems they don't recommend their bindings for cap inside edge boards, which I think may only be Voiles anyway. No mention of whether the Chinese hooks are sometimes incompatible with their binding system or if the K clips lead to 'hulling' of the cap construction board halves. They may add some technical info to the site regarding cap construction boards.

Anyway, I guess I'll return these and he was very nice to help out with any issues that could arise from the transaction. Seems like a very solid, stand-up operation.

Executive summary: Mojo + Split30 = NoGo

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:18 am
Posts: 301
Just sell the mojo, why do the insist on using cap anyway? cheaper i guess. brandywine from prior would do the trick


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Kodiak, AK
On the other hand, why not get rid of the Split30s instead (and get a full refund)? My wife loves her Mojo and has no attachment to these bindings, so it's a much smarter bet to keep the part she likes. I may not know much about women, but I have figured a few things out. When they find a toy they like, don't take it away. :)

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:18 am
Posts: 301
philip.ak wrote:
On the other hand, why not get rid of the Split30s instead (and get a full refund)? My wife loves her Mojo and has no attachment to these bindings, so it's a much smarter bet to keep the part she likes. I may not know much about women, but I have figured a few things out. When they find a toy they like, don't take it away. :)


hah dnt let her have one day on the krams then you might have a problem!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Fairhaven
I haven't played with the chinese hooks at all but couldn't you unclip the tip and tail hooks and fold the board down the middle so the two bases are folding towards each other instead of sliding the halves lengthwise?

After touring with guys on Sparks I would readily spend the money again on another set of K'rams if I needed new bindings.

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I only ski uphill, mostly.


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Kodiak, AK
Unfortunately (or not, see below) the only way to separate the hooks on a board that is not totally flat (i.e. no rise in the tip or tail) is to slide the halves until the hooks clear. The rise in the tip and tail do not allow you to fold the board "up", and the fact that the hooks mount on the top sheet means you can't fold the board "down" because the inside edges are in contact. And the hooks overlap each half, so you can't just lift one board half out of the way.

All of that is actually the simple genius of the hooks. There's not much to them, and yet they do a lot.

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Stockton, CA
Jason4 wrote:
After touring with guys on Sparks I would readily spend the money again on another set of K'rams if I needed new bindings.
why is that?


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 Post subject: Re: A couple Karakoram Split30 questions...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Fairhaven
I was able to transition faster, my bindings were more secure, no pins to fall out, once everything is locked in place I trust that it's going to stay that way, there is a safety for the locking mechanism, my highbacks are stiff enough. I had a few issues in the first couple of days that I managed to get passed and now that I have my fit dialed and my hardware thread locked I'm very happy with my bindings.

The heel bails could be improved, it's nice how tall the sparks bails stand off the board when they are down, it looks easier to hook a finger under to lift the wire up but it's not the end of the world.

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I only ski uphill, mostly.


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