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 Post subject: rughty binders
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:49 pm 
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decided to move the thread here to the bindings section. Here is the link to the previous thread:
http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9627

So, here is the first rendition of the toe ramp/LT bracket adapter. Parts will be welded tomorrow. After using the crappy Voile touring bracket for the past year and since Spark R&D came out with the LT bracket for their Blaze binder setup, I decided to make the upgrade. A little time in the shop and I figured out a way to adapt my binder to use with the LT bracket.
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I welded together a hollow pin from stainless steel tubing. It is pretty close in weight to the aluminum pin that spark r&d uses with their LT bracket and will last way longer.
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Ride RFL's strapped in. Toe straps removed to show clarity.
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One more pic to come after welding is complete and these Rughty's are ready to ride! :thumpsup:

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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:23 am 
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Location: Düsseldorf, Germany
BINDING - PORN

Is all I can say....
:drool:


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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:31 am 
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rughty wrote:
I welded together a hollow pin from stainless steel tubing.
Image


Does the steel tubing not bend well and hence the use of the square connector bit? This is a pretty righteous idea seeing as how you've reached a similar weight to the LT Pin with far greater resistance to wear.

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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:37 am 
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If you look at the first pic, you will see how tight of a bend I would need to make to rest on the baseplate like the Spark R&D pins do. Because I used tubing instead of a solid piece, I can't bend it that much without putting a kink (weak spot) in the tubing. The square is hollow too so weight isn't affected by much having it there. The other bonus of having the squared angle piece is to provide a stopper and to minimize pin damage from rotating the pin when you are transitioning. This tubing is super solid and can withstand the shear forces that are put on them while touring, more so than the aluminum pins. Solid steel pins are overkill when using the LT bracket. I would still use the solid steel pins on the Voile touring bracket though.

Binders are at the welder and will be done today. Pics should be up shortly after. Since I can't test these out soon enough, BGnight will be testing them out for me hopefully this week. I will be going to the Echo Split Fest next weekend and will be bringing these binders (and hopefully some extra ones to demo if I can get my hands on some more bases and slider tracks).

samh, I am planning on hitting up scrubfest too and I will be bringing them with me if I do go.

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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:54 am 
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rughty wrote:
samh, I am planning on hitting up scrubfest too and I will be bringing them with me if I do go.


I look forward to a closer inspection. You're doing some nice work.

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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:58 pm 
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All done! :guinness:


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toe weld detail

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slider track refinished

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I have an anodizing company lined up for when I start ramping up future production that would really make these things look sick!

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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Location: Auburn, CA
Those are beautiful.

They also seem to be the same basic design as Sparks' binders.I don't mean to open up a can of worms but I'm curious if you could elaborate on the, at least perceived, deficiencies that inspired you to go the custom route and how you've addressed them? Or if that's totally off base, what the other inspiration is?

Thanks!

p.s. I've been happily riding my ignitions for a couple of seasons now so this shouldn't be taken as any kind of attack on Sparks. Or on you for that matter. I've got a lot of respect for what you're doing there. Just trying to understand what these offer.


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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:21 pm 
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If you strap in one and then the other the difference becomes apparent.
Think about this. If Blazes had a normal 4 hole pattern for a resort binding would you buy it?

Sparks, Karakoram, and Voile (see, I'm bashing all 3 equally) concentrate too much on the bases and skimp on the actual bindings (straps, chassis, highbacks) themselves. Rughty's binders are the closest to "normal" resort binders I've strapped in to (although Karakorams probably have a tad less play...but not the support). If you're paying $300+ you should be getting the best highbacks, straps, buckles, and chassis.....but you're not. (ride buckles do suck however)

Funny how a guy that's only been riding for two years figured this out before anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:42 am 
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silver wrote:
Those are beautiful.

They also seem to be the same basic design as Sparks' binders.I don't mean to open up a can of worms but I'm curious if you could elaborate on the, at least perceived, deficiencies that inspired you to go the custom route and how you've addressed them? Or if that's totally off base, what the other inspiration is?

Thanks!

p.s. I've been happily riding my ignitions for a couple of seasons now so this shouldn't be taken as any kind of attack on Sparks. Or on you for that matter. I've got a lot of respect for what you're doing there. Just trying to understand what these offer.


Thanks Silver

I guess I'll start with this...I customize everything! I like my gear to work for me, not the other way around. Even old retired gear can become useful again and in some cases waaaay better. :thumpsup: I don't pay top dollar for anything! I'm too cheap and find that in many cases I can do it better and cheaper than going out and buying it. These are probably my top 2 reasons for doing any kind of mod or project no matter what field of work or play I am involved with.

I have seen all the binders first hand and have been listening to all the complaints, problems etc... of all the systems, but I have never ridden on a pair of Blazes, Light Rails or Karakorams. I can read all the frustration riders are having with their inadequate gear. I saw some improvements I could handle taking on and these binders were the result. Having been working in a research and development environment for the past 7 years helped me to bring these things to reality.

My goal with my binders was to make them feel like resort bindings. Some of the things I chose to improve upon were very simple and back to basics changes. Not having a sidewall on a base is retarded. You lose a lot of strength not to mention foot roll while strapped in. Flimsy high backs provide little to no support. I am very keen on that flaw now having suffered a broken leg early in the season. In creating these binders I found that I also have the ability to customize widths! My boot and binding are such a good fit that they feel like one solid piece. Because of this, I believe that response will be significantly quicker and initiating turns will require less effort. I want peace of mind knowing what I am riding is reliable and up for whatever challenges I can throw at it. I think that there was too fast of a progression towards lightweight and not enough progression on comfort and strength. Just looking at these new systems have me doubting their capability and that isn't what I want to be thinking as I am skinning up to some gnarly line out in the middle of nowhere... I agree with BG on the buckles, but they just happened to be the ones that came with the binders. :lol: I am actually looking into new straps, buckles and sublimated highbacks in the near future! :bananas: and come up with a good name for them :scratch:

edit: custom width promotes tight boot to binding interface. No more slop here.
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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:44 pm 
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Thanks for the response Rughty. Comfort, durability, and response are worthy goals, not to mention just the satisfaction of making one's own.

Custom widths to match up to boots sounds awesome. Seems like an obvious place to tighten up a setup.

I'm on the smaller side (170 with my pack on) so I don't worry much about the strength of my bindings. If I was pushing 220 with my gear I might feel differently.

My ignitions have a sidewall even if it's not quite as substantial as the support your sporting. Having never ridden a sidewall-less binding I wonder if I'd miss it...

Also, when I stopped to think about BG's response it made me realize that although I've been snowboarding for some time now, I've never owned a top shelf set of resort bindings. I've put good money into boards and boots instead. Now I wonder what I'm missing.

Anyway, stoked keep up the good work. Always cool to see new perspectives, and more importantly, new perspective made into reality.


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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Nice work Rughty! I was so frustrated with Voile slider performance I was about to do the same thing, except I cant weld so would have had to pay. At that time the Ignition 1s came out so I got those and mounted up Ride heel cups, highbacks and staps. That setup is probably closer to yours than the Blaze. I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks. That wider contact area sems to be the best thing about the Spark bindings and made a huge improvement in ride performance.

Now if you can find a way to rig that LT bracket adapter directly into your boots, you can drop a few pounds off tour mode (910g x 2 = 1820g x 2.2 = 4 lbs!) and carry the binders in your pack.


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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:40 pm 
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AK_Split wrote:
I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks. That wider contact area sems to be the best thing about the Spark bindings and made a huge improvement in ride performance.


I suggested the same thing until I felt his first batch of these binders. There is actually less side to side play with the last binding pictured as there is with the Blazes. The sides of the Sparks bases don't actually touch the board surface. They just look like they should have less play but when I tested both strapped in side by side the Rughty had much less wobble in all directions. Super tight. At least imo. YMMV


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 Post subject: Re: rughty binders
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:50 pm 
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AK_Split wrote:
I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks.


A quick study in force distribution and physics would reveal a flaw with adding any contact points directly to the board from the binding. Voile was very smart in how they designed their puck system. If the board is not allowed to flex because a contact point doesn't allow it to, shear forces take over and snap your board right at the contact point. BS had this problem with his custom Sentury split. Also any sharp edges on your resort bindings that contact the board surface should also be rounded to allow your board to flex at the contact point. You just might find your boards will last a little longer.

Just when I thought they were done
hole drilled for a coated cable leash to be installed at a later date
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brass bushing with new hollow ss pin
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