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 Post subject: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Telluride, CO
So, what do you all value in a new SB binding anyway?

Ease of use?
Weight?
Soft or Hard boot?
Crampons?
Split specific or universal adapter?
Click in type or patience for performance?

Reply with answers, ideas, and what it would take to get you to buy a pair. Who knows, the industry might be listening....

:wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:13 am
Posts: 24
I think it should be:

- light
- integrated with a vibram sole boot (hard or soft), also step-in type
- compatible with automatic crampons


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:54 am
Posts: 21
Location: jackson wy
i want a hard boot and plate binding system. the plate bindings should not be an inch thick(voile) but instead put the bails directly on the plate and widen the plate to create better board feel and torsional stiffness. The boot should be a hybrid: think low-profile sole, hard boot with a snowboard cuff. ideally rides like a snowboard boot but kicks steps compatible with bailed crampons and is capable of iceclimbing


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Posts: 179
Location: Nor-Nev...Whoop Whoop...
nickf wrote:
i want a hard boot and plate binding system. the plate bindings should not be an inch thick(voile) but instead put the bails directly on the plate and widen the plate to create better board feel and torsional stiffness. The boot should be a hybrid: think low-profile sole, hard boot with a snowboard cuff. ideally rides like a snowboard boot but kicks steps compatible with bailed crampons and is capable of iceclimbing


Now we got some fire crackling.....I want this too, A BAD ASS BOOT.....Come on boys, who 's next to step up and get us one step closer to ZEN.

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182 Voile Surf de Neige,195 ST Voile
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Deep snow and surfin the blue blue, I dream.


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 10
Im with you guys, it seems that board technology and finally bindings are catching up but the one thing lacking is a true backcountry boot. I have tried mountaineering boots and "soft" touring boots and still always come back to my snowboarding boots. I would like to see a stiff snowboarding boot, with stiff soles that are crampon compatible and a reliable faster system that gets boot tight but wont break. Oh and offer wide sizes... I had bad luck with BOA (broke at top of run, had to duct tape boot tight), cant get normal laces tight enough to feel comfortable. Luckily the boa boots, burton I think, I bought from REI and when I returned for parts they gave me full refund 2 years after the fact. Used that money for the last years Solomon dialouges with speed lace system, pocketing the 100$ difference. So far happy with speed lace system, however it does seem prone to breakage and relies on some little plastic teeth to stay tight. I did see a thread a while ago about someone putting vibram soles on a boot and looked great, why cant manufactures do this?


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 8:05 am
Posts: 1502
Location: 395
For me:
Softboots
Lightweight and performance
Basically the same concept that Karakoram is on to.

And of course the softboot/mountaineering sole combo that doesn't have toe drag (basically impossible for bigger feet)



Hey, shouldn't you be building my board?! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1416
Location: UT
Lots of good ideas regarding both soft/hard boots...

First the Vibram sole can be misleading.
My Driver X has a Vibram sole and its not what I typically think of as a mountaineering, hiking, or AT sole... Its a softboot sole that says Vibram... Big deal!
This distinction is important to recognize... What people seem to want is a mountaineering sole capable of taking a crampon, and/or Dynafit toe pieces, the name on it is likely irrelevant...

The AT boots ease of touring is where I'm currently at. I can ride any terrain that I care to ride in AT boots, so the trade off in touring is worth any real, or imagined decrease in riding. Stuff that sucked in softboots sucks in hardboots, as does the inverse.

That being said I really like the idea of an AT lower and a softboot upper, BUT I'd add to this a Shimano step-in system for safety and clutter reduction. What I mean by clutter reduction is straps.
If I could point to one reason to never go back to softboots (besides the touring improvement) it would be not having to deal with straps. It may seem inconsequential, but when they arent there you'll notice...

Another idea is something that a SB.com'r posted way back... It was a Voile Mt Plate with a highback that he used for Mountaineering boots... That is a cool idea...

At any rate YMMV :twocents: :guinness: :doobie:

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:05 pm
Posts: 522
I will never buy a step in binding. I've dealt with those damn things and I have no desire to ever even see one again.

What I want in a binding is: light weight, stiffer flex, comfortable straps, adjustable (w/out tools), extremely durable, smooth, reliable ratchets, some cushioning, and the must be bomb proof.

I'll take back what I said about never buying step ins. But a step in snowboard binding is going to have to be a mature product for me to buy it. I mean, 5 years of R&D, ice/slush clogging problems dealt with, ZERO questions about reliability, it must be super light weight, and it has to have demonstrable advantages to strap bindings other than, oh look, I can step in. It has to be as reliable as a ski binding, I mean, it has to work EVERY SINGLE TIME. I don't see that happening from a small company. If that happens, it comes from a Burton, or a K2, just because of the R&D needed. Maybe I'm wrong, look at the insurgents of Spark and Karakoram. But with step ins you have to have proprietary boots for a snowboard binder. That is one more problem with step in snowboard bindings for me. I don't want to buy a boot I can't use with every one of my snowboards no matter what bindings I have on it. Unless someone develops a standard for Snowboard step ins and it works with all the boots on the market, why the hell do I want to buy a pair?

/rant

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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:27 pm
Posts: 607
Location: South Lake Tahoe
A sparks style binding made from plastic. I have never been a fan of metal bindings (I seem to always break them) And I dont want step-ins ( :scratch: arent step ins for begginers and skiers) I like to keep my straps loose on the tour and tight on the way down

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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1416
Location: UT
I'm not too stoked about the step-ins of yesteryear either. Conversely I'm not stoked about strap bindings from ten years ago, but with all due respect, you might want to catch up on the goings on in other countries, namely Japan...

I know its easy to forget to take off the US (or, North America) blinders once in a while, but there is other shit going on in snowboarding outside of North America.
And I realize it doesn't help us stay informed when some NA companies have Japan only products we never hear about, but just because you don't know about stuff don't assume it doesn't exist; hasn't remained in existence; hasn't matured; or isn't relevant...

I'm not going to post links, as I'm sure everyone on here understands how a search engine works, but take my word for it the designs you are quick to dismiss do exist, have existed, and are ridden by more than just beginners and contraption geeks... :twocents:

Hey one rant deserves another :wink: :guinness:

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 6
1. reliability
2. light weight
3. responsiveness
4. ease of use

I use soft boots, I don't use crampons, I could be swayed by the right hardboot but generally I don't mind taking an extra 30 seconds to strap in

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2008 Flow NXT FX bindings, M/L size, used 10 times or so, carbon highbacks, excellent condition, $100 OBO


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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 819
Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!
I want a setup that is as dialed for high level mountaineering and ice climbing as it is for sending the perfect frontside floater over booters.

This means:

1. Das Boot:
-SOFT PLEASE. I don't care who you are, softboots not only make snowboarding more playful, they are way more fun to hop and scramble around in.
-As LIGHT as humanly possible
-FULLY rigid, articulated Vibram sole
-Crampon compatible (preferably strap-ons, because they give better feel on ice).
-Waterproof
-Breathable
-Incredibly durable: I want AT LEAST 120 days out of my boots!
-Sexy as hell: It must look good enough to want to mate with...

2. Binding:
-Not even going to get into it.....

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 Post subject: Re: Market reasearch survey
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:18 pm
Posts: 590
Location: reno
dendrologic wrote:
So, what do you all value in a new SB binding anyway?

Ease of use?
Weight?
Soft or Hard boot?
Crampons?
Split specific or universal adapter?
Click in type or patience for performance?

Reply with answers, ideas, and what it would take to get you to buy a pair. Who knows, the industry might be listening....

:wink:


Sounds like you have plans in the future. I like this.

I have been thinking about this for a while and glad somebody finally put up a new thread. The most annoying thing about straps is that they get in the way when putting your foot into the binding. The annoying thing about step-ins is that the boot is super heavy. The sucky thing about traditional hardboots is that they have you hovering way to high above the deck.

My ideal boot and binding combo:

1. hardboot lower with built in replaceable ratchets. A softboot binder with stiff highacks and super short ladder straps so when you step into the binder, the ladders engage into the ratchets automatically. Then tighten to your liking. Lower should incorporate carbon fibre like the Apex ski boot.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.apexsportsgroup.com%252Findex.htm&h=ef9f9&ref=nf

It should also incorporate the toe and heel pieces for crampons and have a vibram mountaineering sole.

2. softboot upper with boa liners and either boa or locking eyelets


I truly think that there are positives to both hardboot and softboot setups and they can be combined to make this boot/binding setup one of the best technological advances in splitboarding history.

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