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 Post subject: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:33 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 7:13 am
Posts: 29
Location: Chamonix
Hi all doing some research at the moment on hard boots and found the black diamond prime in my local store today it looks quite good a bit higher than the F1's, has anyone tried it or even has it.

Thanks

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:35 pm
Posts: 109
Note: My post assumes you're using Dynafit toe pieces.

I bought a pair of the Primes for this season, have about 8 days on them so far. I've owned F1s and F3s and think the bellows on the toes make for a bit better touring boot but you have to commit to the mods before they'll ride well. In my case, I tried for a long time and couldn't get either boot to work for my foot shape even after several different types of liners and insoles.

So assuming that the Scarpas either don't fit you well, or you don't trust your hand with extensive mods, I would highly recommend the Primes. Here are the pros for me so far:

1. Good weight, not the lightest boot made but still pretty light.
2. Amazing walk mode, very nice ankle articulation.
3. Removable boot board. Makes it a bit easier to dial in the fit if you have a good fitter to help.
4. Roomy in the foot but well developed heel pocket. Keeps my heels in the boot, no blisters yet on several 8k+ days.
5. Really nice forward angles possible in locked ski mode. Saves me the trouble of having to shim my bindings.
6. Little to no mods needed for a good ride.
7. I prefer overlap style boots, takes some work to get your standard tongue on an AT boot working for you.
8. Softer plastic than most AT boots, nice flex. Not as soft as the F1s.
9. The liners work for me, warm so far. Since the liners have they're own tightening system it doesn't feel as sloppy when you have the boots loose.

Regarding mods, I wanted to make sure I like them before making any permanent changes, so all I've done is remove the power strap so far. My next step is taking off some of the plastic from the front of the boot, they're a bit high for me in the front. There's about an inch and a half I can cut off before I get close to the top buckle, going to take it off in stages to get the feel right.

These boots have a nice feature where if you leave the middle buckle loose, it increases your flex significantly in walk mode as it allows the whole cuff a greater range of motion. They are made for skiers to leave the top two buckles loose in touring mode then tighten them down before skiing. If you leave them loose for downhill but flip the lock mode on back, it gives you a pretty good forward motion with it still locked in heelside. I like it because I can tighten up the buckles slightly for steep icy stuff and leave them loose for soft snow. At some point, I may look at drilling out the lock bar on back but I'm still evaluating. I'll probably tinker with stuff over the course of the season, usually takes me some time to get everything dialed in.

Like I said above, if the F1/F3s work for you and you get them modded right, I would suggest those for the bellows. Otherwise, these are great and I would definitely recommend them.

The only other BD boot I would recommend would be the Quadrant but I think 4 buckles is a bit much. Everything else they make is way too heavy.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:36 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 7:13 am
Posts: 29
Location: Chamonix
Thanks Don

That's quite a bit for me to consider. I will need to go and try some on now to see how they compare to the f1's. They seem tobe quite a bit higher than the f1's too. Will let you know how it goes.
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:26 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 7:13 am
Posts: 29
Location: Chamonix
Hi again Don

I am about to go and get some Black Diamonds and was hoping you had a bit more info now that you have had them a big longer??? although your last report was pretty damn good anyway!

Thanks for your last report

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:35 pm
Posts: 109
I liked them a lot when I did the writeup above... like them even more now.

Since then I've drilled out the rear lockout bar to allow for some forward flex when locked which I would consider to be a fairly mandatory mod. Also, I've taken the top two inches of plastic off the cuff which I wouldn't consider mandatory and would recommend you ride them for a while to make that decision.

So yes, I love the boots. I've put in some ~10k days with no blisters or sore feet. They walk like a mountainerring boot for steep booters too. I'm very happy with them, if I had to buy another pair of boots right now I'd still buy these.


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:00 pm
Posts: 12
Wasatch_Don wrote:
I liked them a lot when I did the writeup above... like them even more now.

Since then I've drilled out the rear lockout bar to allow for some forward flex when locked which I would consider to be a fairly mandatory mod. Also, I've taken the top two inches of plastic off the cuff which I wouldn't consider mandatory and would recommend you ride them for a while to make that decision.


Is the forward lean mod a pretty straightforward procedure? Is it basically the same as that detailed in the F1 mods thread?

I just picked up a pair of BD Primes this past weekend. I tried on several different pairs of AT boots, some of which I've seen mentioned here, and the Primes fit my foot the best, especially after thermo-molding with a toe-cap to give me a bit more room in the toe-box.

Haven't got a chance to ride with them yet, but am hoping to get out this weekend. I want to wait until I've had a chance to ride in them before I commit to any mods, but I'm guessing I'm going to want the forward lean mod.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the forward lean mod allows a few extra degrees of forward lean while riding with the boots locked in ski-mode, and the rearward lean is left the same?

Is the rearward lean angle in locked mode sufficient for heelside turns?

So far the only hardboots I've used are a pair of old Raichle Snowboarder AT boots, and I've only used those in powder. The walk mechanism was a lot stiffer on those, and I just rode with them in walk mode, which was fine in powder.


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:35 pm
Posts: 109
First thing you need to do is adjust the rear lockout mechanism to make sure you have it in the setting that gives you the most forward lean. I personally like a bit more forward lean and you should try that first before any mods.

Once you have that figured out, I would suggest drilling out the bar on the lockout mechanism to allow for some more forward movement with the boot locked out into ski mode. This will give you a better range of motion and a more natural feel. It will be obvious what to do once you remove the lockout mechanism to adjust the forward lean as referrenced in the first paragraph.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:21 am
Posts: 18
Location: Wydaho
I got the Primes this year as well. I am very happy with all aspects of the boot and I think it's tour mode is great. I personally removed the entire forward lean lock mechanism to allow for a more comfortable range for my riding style. The boot is wider than my Scarpas and thus feels warm and comfortable. I also am very happy to be rid of those plastic straps and now have real metal buckles.
THX


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:00 pm
Posts: 12
carversplit wrote:
I got the Primes this year as well. I am very happy with all aspects of the boot and I think it's tour mode is great. I personally removed the entire forward lean lock mechanism to allow for a more comfortable range for my riding style. The boot is wider than my Scarpas and thus feels warm and comfortable. I also am very happy to be rid of those plastic straps and now have real metal buckles.
THX


So you just removed the little lever assembly from the back of the boot entirely?

That doesn't give you too much flex while riding?

I was going to head out last weekend in mine, but my partners bailed, so I haven't had them out yet.

Waiting to get some turns in them w/o any modifications, to get a feel for them, before I commit to any mods.


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:21 am
Posts: 18
Location: Wydaho
This "mod" is totally reversible. I ride steep angles so I think this makes it less of an issue. I seem to be able to control the amount of stiffness and cuff range thru tightness. Like I said; this works for my style and your results may vary.
Have a great tour in the boots. Primes are PRIMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:50 pm
Posts: 2
carversplit wrote:
This "mod" is totally reversible. I ride steep angles so I think this makes it less of an issue. I seem to be able to control the amount of stiffness and cuff range thru tightness. Like I said; this works for my style and your results may vary.
Have a great tour in the boots. Primes are PRIMO.


I purchased the Primes this year as well and have enjoyed them. I have no modifications made to the boot yet. But I am interested in carversplits removal of the forward lock mechanism. I never ride with the boots in ski mode. I tried once and it was waaaaay to stiff for my style. Question is: when you say a 'more comfortable range', was that more forward range or another range?

Because these are AT boots , there is no lateral flex. Any suggestions on how to improve this? I usually ride with the boa liner fairly tight and the buckles fairly loose.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:21 am
Posts: 18
Location: Wydaho
My feeling is that the boot being an overlap style rather than a tongued boot allows the cuff tightness to control the amount of forward and back flex. The cuff will not allow me to get too far back and the forward flex seems very progressive with respect to the amount I tighten. Tighter equals more stiffness and a more limited range, but, still has a great feeling of progression. I do not ride the Bomber Sidewinders yet, but, they seem to be the thing for lateral flex with one caveat in mind. They are NOT a good idea for skinning. The lateral flex takes away the advantage of hard boots for touring or skiing the occasional pitch. I also should disclose that I replaced the stock liners with Intuition overlap liners. Overlap liners and an overlap shell seem to make sense to me. Once again, my experience is based on my style and ability level for the terrain I like to ride.


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 Post subject: Re: Black diamond touring boots
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 553
Location: Rawesome, BC
Bumping this as the Primes are on the list for my first foray into the world of hardbooting. Certainly more affordable than TLT5s, though I don't want cost to come back and bite me with an ill-fitting, ill performing boot. Though the impression so far in this thread is that it makes for a decent splitboard boot. Any further insight into these boots Wasatch Don, Carversplit or anyone else for that matter? Who is running stock liners? Good? Bad? Any comparison to Intuitions, tongue or overlaps style? (currently have tongue style Intuition Tours in my Malamutes). I have yet to try these on, have to call around and see if the local shops have any in my size.


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