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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Theres definitely some truth to that. A typical sierra snowpack tends to set-up fast which means you can get on the steep tech stuff shortly after a storm. Whereas a colorado/Utah snowpack mid season may take some time to set-up before you want to get on it. By then a lot of the best shots with an E/S/W face have gone through multiple f/t cycles so your dealing with two totally different types of conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Location: Denver
treetop wrote:
but also, maybe, please tell me if I'm wrong, stiffer boots are better suited to the type of riding that is common in these locations: wide open, fast, steep, big slopes, unrelenting long runs...

in contrast to the more undulating micro-terrain that is common in the more coastal mountain ranges (even in the big mountains), which happens to be so much fun on a snowboard, but maybe favours slightly more flexible boots and bindings.


I wish we had unrelenting long runs in CO, but as Barrows said, its mostly around 11' to 13' for the goods, with trees and avy paths below that. I think hardboots can really shine on the big mountains (big in prominence, ie: north cascades, canadian rockies, etc,) where you are doing a lot of skinning to get to your line, or booting for that matter. Or anywhere where the cold temps can get at your toes. Traversing is much easier with hardboots as well, less muscle fatigue. I cant speak to customized boots though, as the only changes I made with my boots were loosening buckles. If you are sessioning natural features and getting air, softboots all the way. :twocents:

As far as this whole debate, who gives a shit, ride whatever you like. I have a setup for each, and hope to get a bomber binding/dynafit setup next year and then Ill be ready for anything... :rock:

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
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Location: Udapimp, Idaho
treetop wrote:
I have an observation, and I would be interested to hear what you think:
I noticed that hard boot are generally more popular with people living more interior locations - Colorado, Idaho, Utah, Revelstoke, Golden....

probably you guys are just dialed riders who are living in the mountains and know what's up...

but also, maybe, please tell me if I'm wrong, stiffer boots are better suited to the type of riding that is common in these locations: wide open, fast, steep, big slopes, unrelenting long runs...

in contrast to the more undulating micro-terrain that is common in the more coastal mountain ranges (even in the big mountains), which happens to be so much fun on a snowboard, but maybe favours slightly more flexible boots and bindings.

If you are you saying that properly modified hard boots don't necessarily mean overly stiff boots, then I have no doubt that they could work well here too.


I do think HBrs are generally more experienced in a mountaineering sense; kicking steps up a steep chute or steep traversing there's no comparison, especially in firm spring conditions.
I cut my BC teeth out of Alpental (central cascades) and the mountains aren't that big, but they are steep & rugged. Coastal range snow pack can change drastically in a few short hours, from powder to glop to rained on refrozen bullet proof. Interior ranges were the powder can last for days & approaches are longer more gradual would be good for softies.

As many of us are saying, plastic shelled boots don't have to be stiff or heavy to get the benefits; the convenience of buckles & bails, 2-3x the durability, multi-day comfort of molded liners, excel in high alpine terrain.
If you want to surf pow in less steep terrain rather than mountaineering by all means use softies, take off the highbacks or noboard, tsall good. If my nordica SBS had dynafit inserts, they'd be the ultimate nosplitting boots.

sorels are warm but they're not the best hiking boots.
As someone else said straps are "antique technology", they were designed to hold glorified sorels to a board.

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
I got my hardboots for climbing the volcanoes here in the NW in corn season. I like them so much I use them for powder days in Utah during the winter. I do not think there is anything based on regional conditions about choosing to ride hardboots.

Properly modified hardboots are not overly stiff.


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
flex test
[img]View%20My%20Video[/img]

can't figure out how to embed :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:41 pm
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Location: Lake Taco
This debate is timeless and there really is no right or wrong way, what it all comes down to is style. Check out the dude in tights and hardboots :lol:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:58 pm
Posts: 401
Location: slc
SAT QUIZ:

1. SOFT BOOTS : HARD BOOTS ::

a. PBR : Glenlivit
b. Yugo : Ferrari
c. Delinquent : Cardiologist
d. Skateboard : Rollerblades


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
dirtbag all the way


a. PBR : Glenlivit ;PBR breakfast of champion snowbums everywhwere; micro taste-pisswater budget

b. Yugo : Ferrari ;gotta git to the snow, 25yr old Toy4x4 230k, new snowtires double the bluebook

c. Delinquent : Cardiologist ;was in court yesterday

d. Skateboard : Rollerblades ;As a converted skier, fruitboots, but looking to buy a cheap carveboard


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:58 pm
Posts: 401
Location: slc
boardski, thx for playing! I actually am hard-boot-curious.

In your video above, what are the 2 type of boots that you are comparing? The first pair seem reasonable, in that they seem more flexy and less bulky than the second.


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:27 pm
Posts: 599
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Boardski I dig the video :thumbsup: The flex in the boots does seem right, but the boots look to be 2 or 3 inches off the board. I could be tempted to try a hard boot but, coming from a sk8 background it would need to be closer to the board.

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 846
Location: hopefully not at work
SAT QUIZ:

SOFT BOOTS : HARD BOOTS ::

a. PBR : Glenlivit - Pliny the Elder
b. Yugo : Ferrari - Chevy Colorado
c. Delinquent : Cardiologist - Air Pollution Scientist
d. Skateboard : Rollerblades - Neither, prefer to scale some rock

I still lie in the ultra-minority...those that ride mountaineering boots. But will likely convert to HBs in the coming seasons. If anyone can hook up a Scarpa Term-X review, that would rock as I can get a wholesale price purchase. TIA

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
163W Jones Solution, Phantom Alphas, Dynafit TLT5
162 Furberg


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
Buck
The boots are circa '92 Nordica SBH snowboard hard and SBS snowboard soft. the bulk is close between the two; the lowers came from the same molds but the SBS is a way softer plastic with a stiff-er lace up liner that laces onto the soft inner cuff of the shell under the gaiter. It's a unique design with little heelside support. The SBH is the same a the Nordica TR9 AT boot but with a lower tongue and lateral flex release on the cuff hinge. The SBH is stiffer than my old Raichle SB124 hardshells(soft by HB standards) and the SBS is much softer than my Drivers.

AK
The old Emory Surfs binding on that board are shorter than Voile mt plates on a slider. Bomber $idewinders would give a similar flex with a slightly lower stand height and be unbreakable with no chance to twist out like the Surfs.
I believe Will at Sparks is going bring us a slider plate that will mount the bails directly to the side of the plate resulting in the lowest stand height possible with less weight than the blaze and none of the bulk of softies.

I taped that flex demo to prove that plate bindings do not equal a stiff boot.
If a boot like those nordicas was made with buckles & cuff like the SBH(walk mode, lateral flex mode) out of a softer plastic like the SBS we'd have the perfect BC boot; Vibram sole, dyna fit toe inserts, lateralflex lockout + walk mode for touring. Open lateral flex, heelside ride mode lock for riding and plate binding response, convenience & weight savings.

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