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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
There are zero issues using the dynafit toepiece for ascending with the F1 and F3 boots. The boot is only held at the toe and there is nothing to twist out. If you lock the toe in by pulling up on the front lever for two clicks, the boot is in there.

When riding a snowboard in hardboot bindings, the bellow is supported by the ample platform of the toe and heel pieces. From what I can tell, they are completely stable and cannot flex out of the hardboot binding (anymore than any AT boot could come out if the binding is not adjusted properly).

With some AT bindings this is not the case. The boots come with a shim to go under the bellow when using dynafit bindings on AT skis for the downhill. It sounds like some AT bindings that hold the boot at the toe and heel also have some issues with them flexing our when ascending.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: UT
shasta wrote:
Not for Dynafits, sounds like they work just fine.

Plates with bales is where the potential pre-release would come up according to the warning.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. Most of us with F1 and F3 boots are using some combination of Catek, Bomber, SnoPro, Burton or Voile bails on Voile sliders without issues.

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:08 pm
Posts: 14
How are you guys slotting the forward lean bar on the F3? I am unable to completely remove the bar from the boot (unless I grind off the tabs), so I have to work at it from within the boot shell. I tried using a dremel, but I can't find a bit that will stand up to the hard metal. Just curious how the others have done it.

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
The metal is harder than most metal I have drilled through. I used a high quality and sharp drill bit and a dremel bit that held up but it did cut slowly. It was one of the abrasive ones, not the sand paper bit and not a metal bit.

I did the work with the bar in the boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:08 pm
Posts: 14
Ok, good to know! Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:53 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 3
Rode Capitol in those F1s (all heelside) Love them. The bellows are a not an issue as long as the plate system has some support behind the ball of your foot to prevent any sag. An easy thing to mod on Bomber plates with plastic cutting board material. I still use a tight cable leash from the front bail to the boot though. The flex can make scrambling and kick steps a bit weird, but crampons easily overcome that, and it's worth it for the comfort of walking on moderate length dry approaches. Sooo nice. Really like the stop block mod you've shown here, as it eliminates the clunky slap latch! As long as it can be removed or placed on the fly. I kept mine on and tapped a screw through it to hold it down. I've seen people just throw some webbing around it to keep it from popping. Similar trimmings to the top cuff, but removed all upper straps, leaving only the quick release cable to limit forward lean on the cuff only at at a very specific point. I also added a bigger strap and buckle over the top of the foot, and padded the lower tongue to crank down more pressure. I just throw in a shim behind the lower calf for forward lean on my back leg using a piece of tongue from an old soft boot. My only complaints are the additional weight of the Bomber adapter plate for Voile sliders. This could be easily eliminated with some grinding to the sliders to allow room. However, the bolt pattern is just slightly off! It is nearly impossible to hand drill the new holes into the sliders because they are so close. Grrr! brings back awful memories of chainring bolt pattern incompatibility. Losing those adapter plates would drop a pound. So here's another advantage to hard boots: creek crossings. You can take the liners out, and cross in the shells with a couple car wash sponges for padding. :bananas:


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:35 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Ithaca, NY
So I finally took the plunge and bought myself some Scarpa F1s! I lucked out as The Backcountry in Truckee had a pair of them IN MY SIZE (Mondo 28) on consignment for a pretty good price. I bought the Voile mountain plate kit and got it all mounted up at The Backcountry and then hit Squaw the next day to get it dialed.

Start of the day, stoked on the boots!
Image

The response was utterly INCREDIBLE. :rock: Toe-side traverses were so easy. Tipping the board up on edge and holding it was nothing! Bombing down crud was super confidence inspiring once I trusted the setup some more. Firmer snow also seemed really edgeable. I did a little hiking in them up to the Palisades and they hike really well. I could kick steps but the bootpack was uhh well established!

It was not all rainbows and unicorns though... first off I had to re-adjust the centering of the boots over the board as I had serious toe-side drag on my back foot at 0 degrees. Even after moving the stance more evenly over the board the toe-drag was still there. This is surprising given that the sole length of the Scarpa is nearly identical to my '09 Burton size 11 Driver Xs. So I have increased my front foot from 15 to 20 degrees and added about 5 degrees on the back foot.

Next because of the little forward flex and lateral flex, even in the mountain plates, I found doing slow speed heel to toeside turns in steep terrain without hop turning difficult. Most other turns and maneuvers made sense to me just fine. I even was throwing some threes and some grabs (no, no tweaked method- yet.) with about as much ease and style as I do in softboots- which is not much. :lol:

Other than that though I really dig the setup and can't wait to tour on them. I don't have Dynafit toe pieces yet but as my budget allows I am hoping to go that route.

As I ride more I will identify issues that need to be addressed and then mod as necessary. For the time being I am just really enjoying the response of hardboots!

I'm a visual type of dude so here are some photos!

The whole setup:
Image

Front foot drag was not a problem really.
Image

The back foot before changing the angle, the toe side drag is surprisingly bad. I could easily boot out toeside. I couldn't get it to boot out heelside even on steep slopes which was refreshing for a 25ish cm waisted board.
Image

Tipping the scales at about 18-19lbs for the complete setup:
Image

Soft boot setup with Spark Ignition IIs and destroyed '09 Driver Xs also come in at nearly an identical weight:
Image

I know it's resort riding but here is a short and humorous video of the heaviest thing I did in them that day. Firm snow billygoating to get to where I wanted to be, butt checked the landing but pretty confidence inspiring!

My finance thinks the boots look like Elton John's platform shoes. So the video is her edit. :lol:

Thanks to all you guys for blazing the trail and showing me it is possible to freeride in hardboots! I am really stoked on them! :bow:


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1510
Location: Colorado
Jarrett: LOL on the Capitol descent! Not to belittle your descent one bit, as it is a burly line by any standard, but I do wonder if Capitol would see any ski/snowboard descents if it was not for the allure of doing 'em all.

"My only complaints are the additional weight of the Bomber adapter plate for Voile sliders"

I ride an pair of Burton Raceplate toe and heel pieces, direct mounted to the Voile Slider Plate. This requires some filing of the Voile Plate holes, and is not adjustable for different boots, but once you get it dialed it makes for a very light and low stack height plate binding. Mine weigh 1 lb each, with integrated 2.5 degree cants and a .125" carbon/birchply heel lift on the rear foot. Raceplates can be found on ebay occasionally.

Alias: the stiffness you feel in trying to rock through turn initiation can be alleviated through mods, I find one needs to free up the cuff to move through about 10-15 degrees. This requires mods to the forward lean mech, see Buell's "magic cube" mod for ideas-this allows easy forward flex while still having rearward support. On some boots the tongue may be too stiff, even with forward lean mech mods-in this case the tongue can be softened by cutting a V slot down its center. Go easy on mods, one at a time and ride, one can go too far and end up with boots which are too soft if one is not careful.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:35 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Ithaca, NY
barrows wrote:
Go easy on mods, one at a time and ride...


That is exactly what I plan on doing! :rock:


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
I have been riding the 2009 F1 (27.0) stock this year with a Eliminator Custom Tongue (see: http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/eliminator.html). The Eliminator Custom Tongue has help me create a softer forward lean/flex, while improving overall boot fit. I no longer have to crank down the boot straps to get the boot to fit. Now, I ride the boot snug to almost loose, depending on the conditions. The added benefit of the "tongue", is that I have a larger toe box, so my toes stay warm. Also, I ride with a custom orthotic insoles.

Prior riding the 2009 F1 (27.0), I had a 2007 (or 2006) F1 (27.0). This older pair of F1s fitted a lot tighter and had a shorter sole length. I problems with forward lean lever too. So, I exchanged the older F1s for the 2009-2010 pair. I would not recommend the older F1s, if, you plan on keeping the older F1s stock (not modifying).

I have tried riding the F1s with out plastic tounge, but they felt too soft for me.

The Eliminator Custom Tongue might be all you need, instead of modifying the F1 boot. I purchased mine at Pomeroy Sports in Aspen, CO.

The only time, I wish I had a more softer forward lean is when I am going very slow in soft powder and lose my balance on heel-side, and cannot pull the board under me, because of the stiffness of the boot. Once up to a gliding speed, I do not notice the stiffness as an issue in riding powder. Overall, I am very pleased, with the stock F1 boots.

Please note, I been alpine carving since the early 90's. So, I like riding a stiffer boot, and I do not really know how an AT boot should feel in comparison to a soft-boot (such as a Salomon Malamute). I have a lot of respect for Barrow, Buell, Snurfer and others who have posted their "mods" to this post.

The stock F1 with the "Elimintor Tounge" works for me. So the Instaprint tounge, might be worth a carpet test at your local ski-shop, before modifying your boots.

BTW: the Bombers Sidewinder are heavy. Last week I packed them to the Peter Estin Hut. I really notice the weight in my pack, (in comparison to the Voile MTN Plates )skinning up and doing laps at the hut, I had before. However, I really like the ride, I get from the Sidewinders. I like the security of the bomber bindings, but wish for lighter weight and a carbon slider plate! I ran Burton Raceplates (on a Burton Speed) until the plastic bail lever broke. I think someone (Barrows?) got a custom pair of Bomber bails/levers for there Burton Raceplates splitboard bindings.

_________________
Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:21 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
I have been riding the 2009 F1 (27.0) stock this year with a Eliminator Custom Tongue (see: http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/eliminator.html). The Eliminator Custom Tongue has help me create a softer forward lean/flex, while improving overall boot fit. I no longer have to crank down the boot straps to get the boot to fit. Now, I ride the boot snug to almost loose, depending on the conditions. The added benefit of the "tongue", is that I have a larger toe box, so my toes stay warm. Also, I ride with a custom orthotic insoles.

Prior riding the 2009 F1 (27.0), I had a 2007 (or 2006) F1 (27.0). This older pair of F1s fitted a lot tighter and had a shorter sole length. I problems with forward lean lever too. So, I exchanged the older F1s for the 2009-2010 pair. I would not recommend the older F1s, if, you plan on keeping the older F1s stock (not modifying).

I have tried riding the F1s with out plastic tounge, but they felt too soft for me.

The Eliminator Custom Tongue might be all you need, instead of modifying the F1 boot. I purchased mine at Pomeroy Sports in Aspen, CO.

The only time, I wish I had a more softer forward lean is when I am going very slow in soft powder and lose my balance on heel-side, and cannot pull the board under me, because of the stiffness of the boot. Once up to a gliding speed, I do not notice the stiffness as an issue in riding powder. Overall, I am very pleased, with the stock F1 boots.

Please note, I been alpine carving since the early 90's. So, I like riding a stiffer boot, and I do not really know how an AT boot should feel in comparison to a soft-boot (such as a Salomon Malamute). I have a lot of respect for Barrow, Buell, Snurfer and others who have posted their "mods" to this post.

The stock F1 with the "Elimintor Tounge" works for me. So the Instaprint tounge, might be worth a carpet test at your local ski-shop, before modifying your boots.

BTW: the Bombers Sidewinder are heavy. Last week I packed them to the Peter Estin Hut. I really notice the weight in my pack, (in comparison to the Voile MTN Plates )skinning up and doing laps at the hut, I had before. However, I really like the ride, I get from the Sidewinders. I like the security of the bomber bindings, but wish for lighter weight and a carbon slider plate! I ran Burton Raceplates (on a Burton Speed) until the plastic bail lever broke. I think someone (Barrows?) got a custom pair of Bomber bails/levers for there Burton Raceplates splitboard bindings.

_________________
Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:21 am
Posts: 20
Back in the early to mid 2000's, Scarpa made a T2 telemark boot that had a hard rubber stop in place of the F3/TX walk mode. It was hinged, flipped up for touring and flipped down to ski. It had a steel wire to hold it in the down/position, but it could be skied fine without the wire. This sort of stop would provide heel side support without increasing boot stiffness. I couldn't find a pic, but the boot model was the one that predated the T2x.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 11:41 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Golden, CO
I set up a pair of F3s for my third spring trip to Eastern Sierra. To soften the boot, I replaced the stock tongue with a much softer tongue from an old pair of Scarpa T2s. The old T2 tongues fit perfect on the F3 and forward flex nicely. I removed the velcro power straps. I drilled out and filed the metal bar in the back back of the boot (not an easy process) so that the boots forward flex while in "ski mode."

For touring on firm, steep, side hills I found the F3/dynafit vastly superior compared to my experience on softboot/snowboard binding.

I also have the B&D 135 mm classic dynafit crampon. Works perfectly with the F3 and speed TLT dynafit toe piece. Excellent function when skinning on the hard, steep slopes.

I am still working on dialing in the F3's for the descent. The mod to soften the boot - softer T2 tongue. And the mod of drilling out a slot the ski/walk mode bar have vastly improved the F3 performance on the descent.

Overall, I am very happy I invested in the money in the F3 boot and dynafit toe piece for use in spring conditions.

F3 with softer T2 tongue
Image

Drilled out ski/walk bar
Image


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