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 Post subject: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Thought I would start a topic on boots...

Background: I am continuously frustrated that SOFT snowboard boots don't have the level of quality engineering that skiers get. Instead of spending money on design and materials, companies throw so much of their funds towards looking cool and marketing.

In a dream boot, I would like it to ride and flex like a moderately soft park boot but still have the capability to sidehill super well, kick steps like a pro, and take a semi-automatic crampon.

Key features I would love to see:

-Top quality Intuition Liner that is moldable to ANY foot.

-Traditional Laces: In a mountaineering setting, if your Boa or Burton laces break, you've had the can. Traditional laces are not only more adjustable, but if a lace breaks it is easily fixable.

-Internal Ankle Harness: We don't even need to talk about how terrible heel slippage and sprained ankles are...

-Possible adjustability of flex pattern: Remember, I'm talking about SOFT boots... Having a boot that you can do long approaches in would be epic! Fast, light splitboard assaults of the highest mountains in 1 set of footwear is the dream.

-Snowboard specific Vibram Mountaineering Sole: The lug sole of mountaineering boots is amazing for climbing, but not optimal for snowboarding. I want to have enough traction and stiffness to climb anything short of 5:8 rock, but still be able to feel the board and terrain under my feet. Remember, ride performance is critical, and Koflach's just don't cut it. The sole should be as thin as possible, with a 1 degree drop in the heel. Burton is the only company that realizes that dropping the heel into the back of the binding astronomically increases board feel.

-3/4 length carbon fiber shank: Apply rigidity to the sole without adding any weight.

-Rubber last around toe box: I'm tired of ripping boots apart on rock and crampons!

-Minimalist profile: This boot should take up as little volume as possible. Salomon has done a great job with this, but it could get even better.

-Semi-Automatic Crampon Capability: Strapping on aluminum crampons works great, but I'd still like to be able to climb vertical ice in my snowboard boots, and clipping in the heel adds the cramponing performance of even the highest-end mountaineering boots. Plus, the toe-bail crampon design gives a more intimate feel with the ice and reduces the overall length of the boot. Adding a tiny plastic lip at the rear of the shank wouldn't add any weight, as it could just be shaped into the shank itself.

-LIGHT WEIGHT: This boot MUST be MUCH lighter than plastic AT ski boots, and should compete with the 32 Prime in weight.. Every ounce gets swung through a range of motion thousands of times during tours, and fatigue after 14 hours of climbing and riding can be profound.

-Cool looking: Not going to lie. Sex appeal is critical.

Overall I want to be able to ride these hypothetical boots every day. Should be phenomenal in any type of riding. From park and pipe, to pow slashing, steep ice, crud, chunder etc., and excel at at vertical ice climbing and general mountaineering.

Tell me what you think!

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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Easy, but it will take you a year and about $2,500 to 3,000 US.

1. order a pair of pierre gignoux boots, lower part only and without a tongue. have him ship those to you.

http://www.skintrack.com/skimo-racing/p ... the-world/

http://www.pierregignoux.fr/France/XpMountain.php

2. take a pair of light soft boots, I like the Ride one or maybe the Burton Ruler, cut off the sole.
3. grind away much of the carbon shell, leave the toe box and enough material in the back to support a highback later. maybe leave at least about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of shell.
4 Attach the soft boot tops to the carbon lowers, the resoling guy in SW CO could do this well. maybe drill stitch holes with a 1/32 bit in a dremel and run stitching too.
5. send the boots back to gignoux to have a custom carbon highback laminated and attached with spacers so it clears the softboot portion. Or laminate the highback yourself or in the US by a race skate boot maker.

You might give it a go using a used pair of Scarpa F1's first. I would guess that the Scarpa Version would be at or near 3lbs, the gignoux at about 2 lbs.


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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:33 pm 
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I don't think you could ever get any more features and weigh less than 2 lb 32 ultralight or Ride boot. those boots are so light because they essentially have a sole made out of sneaker material. add a sole with strong lugs for bales, vibram, you have to be at 3 or almost 3 lbs, And really, you probably want the sole to have enough structure so you could use a plate binding instead of a 2 pound soft binding.

Also, you could make a custom plate binding out of crampon bales, attached as minimally as possible to a slider track.


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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Hard Boot:

Designed from the ground up as a snowboard boot (new molds for snowboard specific flex, not AT boot molds). Dynafit toe, DIN toe and heel for plate binding use-but much better flexing than any stock AT boot. Light, sub 3 lbs. per boot, with a two buckle design.
A hard boot designed from the ground up for splitting could be made to flex anyway one would want.
Intuition liner.
Climbing sole, but boot is designed for a small footprint (short sole length and compact shell) for better riding and climbing performance.
Right now modded AT boots can get most of the above performance, but a boot designed for snowboarding could be even better.

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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Barrows, you are awesome!

I think a company could offer both a soft and hard option for splitters.

I think rather than trying to tear apart other boots, I'd like to design this thing from the ground up. Using all the modern foams could prove to be essential. How am I going to have adjustable flex though?

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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:45 am 
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You guys remember these from K2's past?

http://www.saltypeaks.com/products/7054 ... ize-9.html

unfortunately they weigh about 4 lbs, 11 oz. each, too much plastic in the shell, and tons of steel for the clicker backing.

I was really hoping Shimano, now Yonex, would thrive and maybe develop one of these, but engineered light like today's boots.


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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Scooby2 wrote:
You guys remember these from K2's past?

http://www.saltypeaks.com/products/7054 ... ize-9.html

unfortunately they weigh about 4 lbs, 11 oz. each, too much plastic in the shell, and tons of steel for the clicker backing.

I was really hoping Shimano, now Yonex, would thrive and maybe develop one of these, but engineered light like today's boots.


Oh my gosh those boots are crazy! I kinda do remember them!!

I do like how they have the crampon lips, but you don't need one in the front. K2 had a great idea with the clicker thing, but we could design something so much higher performing, lightweight, and clean looking. Those things are ugly as sin!

Basically, I just want to take a k2 T1 or Burton Ion style of flex, change a couple materials to be higher quality, add a thin carbon fiber shank in the sole, and add a crampon lip in the back.

I would be epic... You could climb a sick line in the morning, drop your pow, and then shred the pipe in the afternoon!

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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:30 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Russman:

I think we will need two models of boot to suit both of us (no worries!). I prefer a boot that flexes like a Driver X/Malamute, you appear to prefer much softer flexing boots. In any case, do not think that plastic shelled boots have to be stiff. With the technology currently available a plastic shelled boot could be developed that would flex as soft as you want.
While I understand your desire for a low heel, I would suggest that such a boot is biomechanically problematic for hiking/climbing putting way too much strain on the achilles tendon/calf area (skinning would not present a problem, as a positive ramp angle could be incorporated into the heel lifter).
Ultimately I think a boot weight of just under 3 lbs. is reasonable, and the best weight savings would come from saving a lb. by using a plate binding. I would also greatly prefer buckles, good ones are bomber, and much easier to manipulate in backcountry conditions than laces. With a well designed boot, and a properly fitted molded liner, internal harnesses and laces are not needed, and would just add extra weight and complexity.
We can always dream...

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:00 pm 
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Anyone heard of, or tried Rossignol Enduro Soft AT Boot?
http://galacticsnowsports.com/rossignol-enduro-ski-boots.html

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:12 pm 
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If there was indeed a boot like the one I'm talking about out there (not saying there is;) how many of you on here would buy it over what is currently available? Let's say it retailed for $370-$400. Keep in mind the materials and craftmanship would far surpass most snowboard boot makers, and it would still be cheaper than a set of Ions...

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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:29 am 
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Oh yeah. Id buy it!

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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:15 pm 
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russman wrote:
Overall I want to be able to ride these hypothetical boots every day. Should be phenomenal in any type of riding. From park and pipe, to pow slashing, steep ice, crud, chunder etc., and excel at at vertical ice climbing and general mountaineering.


If you really want to use them for ice/mountaineering you should really take a look at the Spantik.

That being said, I don't think you are ever gonna get the boots you want for a $400 price tag. You may be able to get a manufacturer to bite on your wishlist, but my guess is you will be paying AT boot prices for such an item.

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
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 Post subject: Re: Your dream snowboard boot?
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:11 pm 
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Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!
So today I bought a pair of THESE:

http://ridesnowboards.com/boots/strike

I'm planning ripping off the sole, inlaying a carbon fiber shank, and then applying THESE:

http://www.vibram.com/index.php/us/SPOR ... ver-X-Sole

It appears that I am obsessed with BOOTS, as this marks the 4th pair of boots I've purchased this year. Do you think there is a self-help group I could go join to overcome this obsession, or should I just go balls deep and build this thing?

Its too bad that I don't have 50K just sitting around to start this dream boot company..... FML!!
:bananas: :bananas: :bananas: :bananas:

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