Splitboard.com Forums

The World's first exclusive splitboard discussion forums






It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:51 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:18 pm
Posts: 939
Location: reiter hills
Don't you guys mean 'wakeboardy'? Surfers don't use binders to keep them from falling off their boards.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:15 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Tahoma, Ca
aww utah i kinda like my spark boots...

why not have both? softies and hard ons. screw drivers are pretty easy to use.

_________________
www.tahoemobileskirentals.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1519
Location: Colorado
Mythbusting.

From some of the responses here, especially from riders who appear to have no experience with a well sorted hard boot set up, it seems that people still believe there has to be a riding performance compromise with hard boots. Emphatically: with a well sorted (properly modded boots and good bindings) hard boot set up there is no riding performance compromise in comparison to boots most splitters typically use (generally stiffer soft boots: Malamute, Driver X, Insano, etc). I did extensive ride mode comparisons in flex between my hard boot set up and my Driver X set up, and found that my hard boots flexed the same in terms of lateral and medial flex, and actually offered a better forward flex (softer at first, and then deeper flex proceeded to offer a nice progressive resistance, better than the Driver X which was stiff at first, and the kind of folds and crushes one's foot in order to flex forward more deeply).
So, the idea that somehow hard boot systems are a compromise in riding performance, in order to take advantage of their apparent touring performance gains is entirely in error. Personally, I would not be willing to ride a system which compromised riding performance in any way, and riders who believe this myth are mistaken. The whole reason I am out splitboarding is to enjoy riding.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm
Posts: 873
Hey Christoph if I didn't know any better I would probably agree with you. What's the saying ignorance is bliss. Plus you work in a shop and probably didn't pay 375 buckeroos. When you throw down that kind of cash for boot that you expected would have been rung through the ringer and had all the kinks worked out you end up feeling like you got ripped off. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Sparks...I want my hard earned money back for sure. Need new binding next year as well and not really digging spark right now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:12 pm
Posts: 81
Quote:
So, the idea that somehow hard boot systems are a compromise in riding performance, in order to take advantage of their apparent touring performance gains is entirely in error. Personally, I would not be willing to ride a system which compromised riding performance in any way, and riders who believe this myth are mistaken. The whole reason I am out splitboarding is to enjoy riding.


Thanks for answering this for me, i honestly was wondering. I've been considering this investment into hardboots, but my experience with them is limited. In colorado I spend the majority of my winter riding in the trees and lower angle stuff waiting for spring stability, I know I'd like the hardboots in the approaches and steeps, but always wondered if I'd lose something in the bread and butter splitting of winter. I also figured the ideal hardsoftboot would materialize soon.

Someone out there, smarter than me, is hopefully tinkering with a dynafit like snowboard binding.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1519
Location: Colorado
waltzingmatilda wrote:
Quote:
So, the idea that somehow hard boot systems are a compromise in riding performance, in order to take advantage of their apparent touring performance gains is entirely in error. Personally, I would not be willing to ride a system which compromised riding performance in any way, and riders who believe this myth are mistaken. The whole reason I am out splitboarding is to enjoy riding.


Thanks for answering this for me, i honestly was wondering. I've been considering this investment into hardboots, but my experience with them is limited. In colorado I spend the majority of my winter riding in the trees and lower angle stuff waiting for spring stability, I know I'd like the hardboots in the approaches and steeps, but always wondered if I'd lose something in the bread and butter splitting of winter. I also figured the ideal hardsoftboot would materialize soon.

Someone out there, smarter than me, is hopefully tinkering with a dynafit like snowboard binding.


Matilda: I hope you are right, but I really do not think that we will see a quality, dedicated, hard shell (or hybrid) boot developed specifically for backcountry freeriding anytime soon. I have had some discussion with a representative from Dynafit, and he suggested the cost of developing such a boot would be from $600,000-$1,00,000 euros, and that the potential market is way to small to support the development of such a boot. In any case, the TLT5 makes for a really great riding boot with some very simple mods, and I am very happy riding this boot in all conditions, including mini golf tight tree lines. In fact, right now I am more focused on improving the plate binding, as my boots are very close to perfection, and better than any soft boots I have ever used (I have either been in Northwave Apollos, Malamutes, or Driver Xs for many years).

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:15 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Tahoma, Ca
UTAH wrote:
Hey Christoph if I didn't know any better I would probably agree with you. What's the saying ignorance is bliss. Plus you work in a shop and probably didn't pay 375 buckeroos. When you throw down that kind of cash for boot that you expected would have been rung through the ringer and had all the kinks worked out you end up feeling like you got ripped off. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Sparks...I want my hard earned money back for sure. Need new binding next year as well and not really digging spark right now.


in my opinion if your gonna climb in soft boots you may as well ride sparks. at least i dont have to worry about my crampon popping off when im climbing.

but yes they do nothing to improve touring. (and they were well worth the 200 dollars i spent on them) :poke:

_________________
www.tahoemobileskirentals.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:15 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Tahoma, Ca
the reason hb's comprimise riding in my opinion is the bindings, not the boots. way too much flex between binding/puck interface. put that with a hard boot and you feel like the whole system is about to explode.

and i also ski and love AT boots so implying im ignorant is not true.

_________________
www.tahoemobileskirentals.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm
Posts: 873
There's many good qualities about the sparks for sure. My lacing system on one side of one boot broke, they are loose around the ankle, the vibram sole is weak/soft french stepping without the aide of a crampon is not much better than a standard sole, their BIG as hell, bulky but I definetly understand why guys want a stiff soft boot. It took a bit of getting used to but it improves the performance of both the technical up and down quite a bit.

In my opinion you do lose a little in the ride of a hardboot. I would much rather be in my soft boot set up for the down most of the time. Theres conditions where you won't see much of a difference from the two pow and good corn. But you have to look at the whole picture. If I'm going to go ride a volcano in the summer my up is going to consist of a long approach maybe some dirt hiking, snow is going to be solid to the top. In this moment I want all the benefits of a HB. If I'm lucky and I hit the down at the right time I might get some corn type snow, I'm going to enjoy the down just as much despite the boot soft or hard. If it's solid ice in the moment I personally would like my soft boot set-up. But I ride a very soft HB the old lace up MLT from Dynafit nothing like what Barrows rides. If I lapping a fun cliff drop, popper run that I love to do as much as possible I ride my soft boots, at this moment the type of soft boot is really not an issue might as well rock some kick me down from Coulter rather than spending 375$ for the sparks. I'm poor, money is tight for me and I become a pretty critical consumer, not trying to offend anybody. I spread the love to everyone I don't have any favorites.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Your out there crushing it Christoph so it doesn't matter much anyways. I just think it's important for guys to get some good info


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1519
Location: Colorado
Christoph:

"the reason hb's comprimise riding in my opinion is the bindings, not the boots. way too much flex between binding/puck interface. put that with a hard boot and you feel like the whole system is about to explode."

While I feel your rhetoric is overblown, I certainly do not feel anything in my system is about to explode, I do agree that there is room for improvement in the available plate bindings and interfaces, of course if your experience is with the Voile Mt Plate I understand your statement better-I would not trust that system personally, and would never use it. My puck mod alone improves response (eliminating puck flex), and I have seen some proto binding/interface developments which are very interesting, and may develop into available products on a limited basis for next season. These developments will be shared (first) with SB.com members at some point this summer/fall.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:18 pm
Posts: 939
Location: reiter hills
I mostly agree with utah, except for a little more simplified...

I ride both.

Stiff boots for steep, hard, and fast.

Soft boots for pillows, airs, and low angle.

If you aren't doing longer tours, having to boot firm snow, or have ankle issues like me, I would stick to soft boots.




Ski boots make better stiff boots then high end soft boots for ankle support.
Traditional snowboard boots are far superior in the soft category then an over modified ski boot.

It has more to with personal style and riding and terrain preferance.

That's just my opinion based on personal experiance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Fairhaven
BGnight wrote:
IrishGav wrote:
When Jeremy Jones Xavier, TB, T Rice, Jonaven, R Backstrom, J Charlet, Terje, Muller, Debari RUSSMAN etc etc etc
switches to hard boots and says they improve his riding performance then I'm sold

fyp

:thumpsup:

Do you want to ride with soul or sole ;) It's all about the down yo


Lucas is a friend of mine and I've talked to him about how he felt in AT boots when he climbed and rode Denali last summer. He said it was goofy and changed his riding style and obviously isn't riding AT boots in pow. I asked what he would do if he went back to Denali or any other split mountaineering adventure and he said he'd go back to AT boots despite the compromise in riding feel.

That said, I really wanted to fit into the TLT5's just for the mountaineering performance but they are way too narrow at my arch. I'm not very familiar with ski boot fitting so I'm not sure if my issues could be solved by a good boot fitter but there was no way I could go anywhere in them the way they fit out of the box. The flex felt manageable but not the fit.

_________________
I only ski uphill, mostly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hardboot setup? Why?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1519
Location: Colorado
"Lucas is a friend of mine and I've talked to him about how he felt in AT boots when he climbed and rode Denali last summer. He said it was goofy and changed his riding style and obviously isn't riding AT boots in pow. I asked what he would do if he went back to Denali or any other split mountaineering adventure and he said he'd go back to AT boots despite the compromise in riding feel."

I would be interested to know what boots he used, and if they were modified or stock. Most off the shelf AT boots are going to be way too stiff to provide good riding performance, and even relatively soft AT boots like the TLT5s do not achieve great riding performance without modification. All my comments as to the riding performance of hard boots refer to TLT5s, specifically modded to flex in a very similar way to the stiffer soft boots (Driver X, etc).

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ryuunoeien and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group