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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am 
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"Barrows, there might be a misunderstanding.
UPGRAYEDD_2505 argued, that making a AT-Boot softer in side flex would reduce it's uphill capabilities. (use edge when doing traverses)
And that is true to a certain extent."

Sure, and there is a reasonable "happy medium" as well. This is why the mods are important, as the rider can make the boot suit their individual needs. Personally, I almost always tour with the cuff of my boots very loose, and get sidehilling edge power from the stiffness of the lower boot rather the cuff. Honestly, I do not believe that sidehilling ability is the biggest touring advantage of a hard boot system (maybe it has been too long since I toured in softies though :D ). I think the much lower weight, and greatly increased stride length is a much bigger advantage than sidehilling ability, I am constantly annoyed by the short shuffle step necessary for soft boot riders on the flatter sections of the skin track, and lets face it, even with hard boots, a 130 mm wide split ski with deep sidecut on one side is never going to sidehill all that well, no matter the type of boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:45 am 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
TLT5s tour with the top buckle undone anyway. If the top buckle is engaged, the boot locks in ride mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Posts: 1185
Location: Denver
russman wrote:
LOOOOL!! Don't do it buddy!! I saw those bindings at SIA, and yep, they're sick looking, but no matter how rad Borrows says he is, those frootbooter guys are just a bunch of crazy-ass GINGERBREAD TURNING RUSSIANS!!!!!!


Like I've said before. Post up some photos and videos of yourself so we know what a proper snowboard turn looks like. Based on my body mechanics and snowboarding style, I will never turn like Jeremy Jones regardless of boot/binding selection. And thats fine with me. My joints dont work to the point that I'm going to be boning shit out like in a skate park. Nor is that appropriate for me in many of the conditions and terrain I ride in. Nothing against Jones riding style, it is fun to watch and he is obviously very skilled on big mtn terrain. I like high speed large turns, where severe knee/ankle bending and stooping doesn't work for me. Not knocking it, just not for me. Sure, on deep days in terrain full of features I like to tweak it out a little. But for most of the stuff I like to ride the TLTs work very well. They will never be the best choice for freestyle riding. And that is not the intention.

Thats why I like to have both setups in my quiver.

http://static.grindtv.com/images/1/00/31/82/04/318204.jpg

Id like to see Xavier and the fitwell guys get together and make some magic. If the fitwells are a quiver boot, Id rather have the TLT/Dynafit combo, and use my softies for the freestyle days. Seems like too many sacrifices with the fitwells. The TLTs will cimb as well (if not better), and have superior touring performance. Im no ice climber, but both boots have their obvious limitations for that activity. These things fit like gloves and with crampons make for an awesome mountaineering tool. Pop 'em into walk mode and you can hike ridgelines all day without the heel toe clomp clomp you get with rigid mountaineering boots. Lets not even mention frozen laces. You can even tweak the shin ankle stiffness by engaging the top buckle without locking it into ski mode (using a foam doughnut or similar).

http://www.tetonat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Dynafit-TLT5-Performance-Walk-Mode-Modification.jpg

http://www.wildsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tlt-5.jpg

There will always be different camps in the boot department. Im stoked to have people finally working on the soft market. Just need someone with a lot of visibility and $ for the AT market.

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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:29 pm 
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HikeforTurns wrote:
The TLTs will cimb as well (if not better), and have superior touring performance. Im no ice climber, but both boots have their obvious limitations for that activity. These things fit like gloves and with crampons make for an awesome mountaineering tool.


Lots of folks find the TLT5 climb damn fine, see Coldthistle blog. :rock:

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Everyone who rides hard boots is obviously a liar and doesn't know what they're talking about. :)

... now that that's out the way, hey barrows, how does the sole length/profile of that TLT5 compare to your Driver? I'm specifically interested in toe/heel overhang issues. It seems to me that if you have big feet, the hardboot sole profile can be an issue for overhang. It looks like the TLT5 heel is blocky and flat, and the toe isn't as rounded as a typical softboot either because of the Dynafit toe inserts. But if the profile was close to a softboot (like your Drivers) in the same size, then I might be tempted to try it out. I'm a size 11 and am basically at the limit of toe/heel overhang that I can deal with without getting a wider board, which I really really don't want to do. With hardboots, historically when everyone was using Voile plates this wasn't a big deal because your boot was way up off the board, but now with Keffler's binding the boot is as close to the board as in typical Spark/Karakoram setups.

As it is, I'm running into the same overhang issue with the Fitwells. First off, the shell itself is about 1/2" longer than my same-sized Burton shells. Then, the sqaured-off profile of the toe part of the sole causes it to stick out even more, due to the rocker. This weekend I took a belt sander to them and rounded off the toe, and put even more ramp into the heel. Hopefully I didn't inadvertently destroy some super-important characteristic, but at least I think I can actually ride with them now...


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Barrows, when you quoted me you left of the :wink: . I was trying to be funny, I don't think hardbooters are liars 8) . If you're gonna quote me in the future don't excise the emoticons, which can change the feel of a post. Thanks.

I know that you can mod a hard shell to be flexier than an Ugg boot; I remember Damian Sanders.

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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:54 pm 
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UPGRAYEDD_2505 wrote:
Barrows, when you quoted me you left of the :wink: . I was trying to be funny, I don't think hardbooters are liars 8) . If you're gonna quote me in the future don't excise the emoticons, which can change the feel of a post. Thanks.

I know that you can mod a hard shell to be flexier than an Ugg boot; I remember Damian Sanders.


sorry UPGRAYEDD! I guess I did miss a little of the meaning of your post.

JimW, your question has been discussed in the TLT5 thread quite a bit. I wear a 28 in the TLT5, and my Driver Xs are a US 10. The driver Xs are a little on the small size for me. The TLT5s have a very compact shell, they are shorter in overall length than the Driver Xs (but note, my Driver Xs are older models, newer ones appear to be a little more compact, but I really need a 10.5...) Sure, the toe and heel are more rounded on the D-X, but as I am sure you are well aware, on truly steep terrain, rounding of the toe and heel does not help much, and it is the total length of the boot which matters. Note also, that a soft boot binding needs to have bulk behind the heel of the boot (the binding heel loop), which does not exist in a hard boot binding (I think the Karakoram Prime, if they ever get made, might be an advantage here, with only the highback bulk behind the boot).
In any case, for steep terrain riding, where boot out can be a real concern, I feel the hard boot system has a big advantage.
I must say though, how wide is the Spliff? I prefer 26 cm waists on boards with traditional sidecut (like my Storm's 9.2 M) with either my Driver Xs or TLT5s, anything narrower is too sketchy for me in truly steep terrain. Of course, board width at the foot is what matters, and this varies quite a bit with both sidecut depth and taper (the rear foot is usually the problem), rather than just the waist width. I prefer less sidecut, so the board is actually narrower at the foot than the waist width alone might indicate. Grinding the sole just a little is (as you mentioned on the Fitwell) is always an option as well, I have done this before. If you run a relatively flat angle on the rear boot, you can grind a 70 degree angle into the sole and eek out some additional clearance without worrying about the toe fittings... On the heel, the best way to go would be to remove the Dynafit fitting, and fill in the recesses in the boot with epoxy, and then grind a nice sharp angle on there. I have considered doing this, and may still at some point, but have never got around to it.
Note though, that the TLT5 is much more compact than other AT boots of which I am aware, and all AT boots are much more compact than the traditional mountaineering boots which the Fitwell seems to be modeled after. I never could live with the frankenboot hybrid approach (Koflachs with tall liners) because the boots were so bulky, the TLT5 is nothing like that.

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http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:35 am 
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"I DEFINITELY feel the taller heel"....weird, I don't notice it at all. I hope they don't change the heel either. And I never said they're stiff RUSSKOOK!!!. I told you they have tons of fore/aft and lateral flex right out of the box. I hope with some influential input that fitwell can dial these in over the next few years. Judging from their initial product I don't think that'll be a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:47 am 
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UPGRAYEDD_2505 wrote:
I don't think there is really any resistance IRL, it's mostly just people goofing off on the intrwebs.


True.

And you could give me the best modded T5LXJ5Z to my foot, with phantom bindings, allow me a week of riding to get used to it, and I guarantee I would not like it anywhere near enough to want to switch to hardboots. I just can't personally sacrifice the way I ride. When I see someone riding them on a board I feel like I'm watching a soulless zombie or someone who just wishes they learned to ski. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:52 am 
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"soft boot binding needs to have bulk behind the heel of the boot (the binding heel loop), which does not exist in a hard boot binding (I think the Karakoram Prime, if they ever get made, might be an advantage here, with only the highback bulk behind the boot)."

Nope. My boot heel always touches the snow before my heelcups on all my set ups.


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!
UPGRAYEDD_2505 wrote:
I don't think there is really any resistance IRL, it's mostly just people goofing off on the intrwebs.


EXACTLY!! Finally, someone who understands that hackling is an INTEGRAL part of snowboarding!

barrows wrote:
Sorry, but when someone calls me a liar on the interwebs I feel it is appropriate to respond


Borrows, one day you will realize that no really gives a shit what you ride, and in time you may learn to take all of this, and yourself, less seriously. Hell, Ale Capone is a damned froot booter, and he dishes the hackling right back atchya! I'll never debate that there are dudes who are amazing on hardbooters, but it doesn't mean I can't hackle! LOOOL


Okay, enough seriousness!


I bought wrap around Intuition liners for my Fitwells, and now they are dialed as hell! Here's one important thing to consider: The fitwells are a highly capable mountaineering boot that you can do incredibly high level mixed, ice, and rock climbing in.... And snowboard like a snowboarder, not a skier. As a long time alpine ice and rock climber, I vastly prefer the feeling of a traditional mountaineering boot over the feel of a ski boot. For me, that's always been a benefit of being a shredder... I don't HAVE to wear froot boots!

Anyone else have some hackling to pipe in? I can take!!!

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell Backcountry
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Washington
^Russ, you're still a KOOK. Don't ever change.

I "think" Barrows is preaching the hardboot gospel so hard because with enough momentum there might one day be a production BC hardboot for shredders. That is a great thing for the hardboot guys and gals. These forums can drive innovation. I don't blame Barrows for using this platform, it's effective. I'm still waiting for the perfect fitwell type boot. We aren't there yet. Toe overhang, negative bro.

Hey Barrows, maybe just put the "well sorted, appropriate mods" mantra in your signature so you don't have to keep typing it over and over. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Fitwell US sales and marketing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:35 pm 
Hello all,
I am working with Fitwell in US sales and marketing. If you have questions regarding the Backcountry snowboard boot and other Fitwell products, you can reach me at toddandersjohnson@me.com
Thanks

https://www.facebook.com/FitwellUs


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