Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Voile Split Hook Cam VS Karakoram Ultra/Split Clips?
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  • #797862
    RideEverything
    11 Posts

    I’m wondering if anyone has any experience in using the Voile Split Hook Cam compared to either the Karakoram Split Clips or the newer Ultra-Clips?

    What I’m looking to find out is if any of these clips, Voile and/or Karakoram, will make the board a little stiffer and minimise the halves shifting while riding.

    I have an eight year old Prior Khyber Split that hasn’t seen a ton of use in the last several years. But in the past two seasons I’ve started to split more often again and I’m finding that the board isn’t as stiff as it once was. What I’m hoping is that one of these new clips can bring a little bit of stiffness back to my board.

    If there isn’t much difference between the Voile Cam Clips compared to the Kara Clips I’ll happily use the Voile ones because they are substantially cheaper. Even with the exchange rate!
    I can find the newer Kara Ultra-Clips immediately for $80 CAD here in BC but I’d have to order the Voile Clips direct from Voile in the US. Even then the shipping costs twice as much as the Cam Clips! However after exchange the cost + shipping of the Cam Clips is about $30 CAD.

    Any thoughts are welcome.

    Thanks!

    2007 Prior Khyber Split 170 (trad camber)
    2008 Spark R&D Blaze (modded)

    #797869
    Matt Wood
    328 Posts

    I used K clips for a number of years and am no happily back to Voile hooks.

    #797882
    Snurfer
    1448 Posts

    I’m wondering if anyone has any experience in using the Voile Split Hook Cam compared to either the Karakoram Split Clips or the newer Ultra-Clips?

    What I’m looking to find out is if any of these clips, Voile and/or Karakoram, will make the board a little stiffer and minimise the halves shifting while riding.

    I’ve used both and happily use Voile hooks on all my boards. When you say the “board haves shift” and “make the board a little bit stiffer” I’m confused.

    First, board stiffness should have little to do with the use of hooks/clips. Its more about the layers of board and the type and age of the core.

    If you are referring to rigidity of each half of the board to the other. Then yes, hooks/clips can help. Which raises the question about the board halves shifting.

    Which way are the halves shifting? Do you mean moving up down against/way from the snow in opposition to one another OR one half moves forward/back of the other half?
    If its up down I’d say its a toss up. Consider the ease of use, cost and the other benefits in which case Voile wins hands down IMHO.
    If its forward/backward shifting then you need to dial in you pucks, the clips and hooks should not be handling this function your bindings should.

    FYI When I used the 1st generation K-clips it was on a board where the the halves were moving up down against/way from the snow in opposition to one another. The K-clips made it worse by pulling the halves tight together, so that when they’d flex in opposition they’d get stuck like that and the inner edge would get hung up on hard snow, drag in powder, etc. Turns out it was just a bad board.
    In other words if the two halves age, break-in differently or are poorly manufactured with slightly different flex you’ll have this situation. At least the Voile hooks allow this condition to float a bit and be a bit more dynamic. Not ideal, but nothing is going to fix a bad board. FWIW Having your pucks dialed in is where you should put some effort, as it can help with this condition as well.

    Shark Snowsurf Chuna
    Voile V-Tail 170 BC
    Voile One Ninety Five
    Spark R&D Arc

    #797907
    RideEverything
    11 Posts

    I used K clips for a number of years and am no happily back to Voile hooks.

    Thanks for the response.

    Why are you “happily” back to Voile clips?

    2007 Prior Khyber Split 170 (trad camber)
    2008 Spark R&D Blaze (modded)

    #797909
    RideEverything
    11 Posts

    I’m wondering if anyone has any experience in using the Voile Split Hook Cam compared to either the Karakoram Split Clips or the newer Ultra-Clips?

    What I’m looking to find out is if any of these clips, Voile and/or Karakoram, will make the board a little stiffer and minimise the halves shifting while riding.

    I’ve used both and happily use Voile hooks on all my boards. When you say the “board haves shift” and “make the board a little bit stiffer” I’m confused.

    First, board stiffness should have little to do with the use of hooks/clips. Its more about the layers of board and the type and age of the core.

    If you are referring to rigidity of each half of the board to the other. Then yes, hooks/clips can help. Which raises the question about the board halves shifting.

    Which way are the halves shifting? Do you mean moving up down against/way from the snow in opposition to one another OR one half moves forward/back of the other half?
    If its up down I’d say its a toss up. Consider the ease of use, cost and the other benefits in which case Voile wins hands down IMHO.
    If its forward/backward shifting then you need to dial in you pucks, the clips and hooks should not be handling this function your bindings should.

    FYI When I used the 1st generation K-clips it was on a board where the the halves were moving up down against/way from the snow in opposition to one another. The K-clips made it worse by pulling the halves tight together, so that when they’d flex in opposition they’d get stuck like that and the inner edge would get hung up on hard snow, drag in powder, etc. Turns out it was just a bad board.
    In other words if the two halves age, break-in differently or are poorly manufactured with slightly different flex you’ll have this situation. At least the Voile hooks allow this condition to float a bit and be a bit more dynamic. Not ideal, but nothing is going to fix a bad board. FWIW Having your pucks dialed in is where you should put some effort, as it can help with this condition as well.

    I guess I should have been more clear?
    Thanks for the response.

    Torsional stiffness is what I’m looking for. The halves are moving up and down not forward and backwards.
    I realise that a splitboard is not going to be as torsionally stiff as a solid board. However I would like to try to minimize the lag in response when rolling from edge to edge when turning. Especially on hardpack and crud.

    I disagree with your statement that the hooks/clips have little to do with board stiffness. They may not have as big of an effect as the pucks and bindings interface but they do contribute to the overall stiffness of the board.
    Yes, the board construction has the most effect on board stiffness but what connects the two halves together plays a large role as well.

    I’ve heard various opinions and experiences with the K Clips and was wondering how they compare to the new Voile Cam Hooks.

    I currently have the original Voile Hooks. They do the job as I have my pucks setup well and tight (as you should) but I’m wondering if either of these hooks/clips can do better at dealing with the torsional issues that are inherent in splitboards.

    2007 Prior Khyber Split 170 (trad camber)
    2008 Spark R&D Blaze (modded)

    #797911
    buell
    534 Posts

    You should also consider the hooks from Phantom. I have been riding them but I am not positive they are available to the public yet, you would need to email. They are light and efficient during transitions. They do not require the unnecessary step of latching and unlatching them during transitions like the Karakorums. They are also sufficiently low profile that you do not need to rotate them like the Voiles.

    You are not going to find much, if any, difference between the current hook designs on the torsional stiffness between the two board halves. The hooks are designed to keep the board halves from moving up and down relative to each other. They do add a bit of torsional stiffness between the board halves, but not that much relative to the loads that will be placed on the board while riding. They are just too short to overcome the leverage exerted on them from the edges of the board.

    If the board halves are moving and twisting relative to each other, responsiveness will be negatively affected. I have seen photos of riders who placed a steel rod through the touring brackets to stiffen the board torsionally. When I was using the Voile puck system, I actually added a third Voile hook between my bindings to keep the board halves from twisting relative to each other. It did make an improvement.

    The binding system has the biggest effect on the torsional stiffness between the board halves. If you want to increase the torsional stiffness and responsiveness of the board, use an overlapping binding plate system that sits on the topsheet like Karakorum or Phantom. This design is far better at tying together the two board halves than a non overlapping Voile based puck system, especially if the pucks are plastic.

    #797972
    RideEverything
    11 Posts

    Thanks for all the info!

    However my original question still has not been answered.
    Is there a noticeable difference in stiffness to the board between the new Voile Cam Hooks and the Karakoram Clips?

    And, to throw another question into the mix – Is there any benefit to switching out my original Voile pucks to the Spark R&D pucks?
    The Spark pucks have an aluminum disk which looks to also be more adjustable.

    Damn!
    Splitboarding is almost as bad as mountain biking with the amount of components you can get. The ever prevalent disease of upgrade-itis in mtb is now affecting me in my snow equipment. The sake of getting new bits for the sake of them just being new!! LOL!

    2007 Prior Khyber Split 170 (trad camber)
    2008 Spark R&D Blaze (modded)

    #797974
    summersgone
    817 Posts

    The voile cam hooks just allow you to make the board a bit tighter if you get any slop or an inner gap in your board once together, but end of the day are really just voile hooks with ability to adjust inner gap tightness. I use them on 2 boards of mine when I had a little gap when together with normal voile hooks. it is great for a DIY as well. They feel just like normal voile hooks if you have used them. K’s adjust to accomplish the same thing, but I find torsional rigidity is a lot better on voile hooks than Ks when together, and voile hooks are a lot simpler to put a board together than Karakorums, which was the primary reason I switched. I had Ks for 1 season and now all my boards are voile hooks. You can email Keffler and Phantom about their hooks, but they aren’t available to the public yet.

    I have no experience spark pucks to comment on that side.

    #797979
    buell
    534 Posts

    Your original question has been answered in this thread. It is just not the answer you want.

    The clips will not provide the torsional rigidity you are looking for under riding conditions. It doesn’t matter which ones you choose.

    It is the binding set up that provides the torsional rigidity between the board halves on a splitboard. The appropriate question is which bindings will improve the torsional rigidity of the board. I also have no experience with Spark pucks, they might be better, but it is still a floating binding system that does not lock in the board halves tightly under the bindings.

    Once the board connection is solid, the actual torsional rigidity of the board will be more of a factor. I rode a Prior Khyber splitboard for a few years when I was riding Utah powder. It was a great powder board. When I took it to the Eastern Sierra, it could not handle the mixed conditions, because it is too torsionally soft. I sold it quickly. A more all around split with more torsional rigidity is something to consider. Keep the Khyber for the pure powder days.

    #797981
    Scooby2
    612 Posts

    I second Buell on this one, clips won’t take you very far, it’s the board. I actually call bs on tight fitting boards, (but then I live in Utah and have you seen the forecast? wow). I like transitions with my older looser splits better.

    If you want edge rigidity under foot and don’t have an overlapping system you can get two strips of 2mm carbon fiber from someone like Dragonplate.com mount those flat plates under your pucks so they overlap both halves of your split then have your pucks screwed down over them.

    #797983
    SkateBananas
    178 Posts

    If you want edge rigidity under foot and don’t have an overlapping system you can get two strips of 2mm carbon fiber from someone like Dragonplate.com mount those flat plates under your pucks so they overlap both halves of your split then have your pucks screwed down over them.

    What? Is this discussed somewhere? Ive never seen this one…..

    Binding systems is definitely the answer to your question. My phantom setup is crazy stiff when put all together.

    #797988
    schwalbster
    321 Posts

    Hey Ride Everything, the reason you haven’t received the straight answer you are looking for is because there is a problem with your question. You are trying to look at something in isolation of the main factors that create torsional stiffness in a Splitboard and I second Buell as well here, Board and Binding system are way bigger factors. The hooks won’t make a big difference if any at all. Plus it’s all opinion anyway (and we all know they are like assholes, everybody has one ;))

    So even if someone really tested this (and imo that would require to ride the same board, with the same bindings on the same day, ideally again on the same slope with just switching out the hooks between runs, so it’s unlikely you’ll find someone here who did that! Maybe you want to volunteer?), it would still be just a feeling from that person.

    Personally I really like Karakoram clips. In general I think there are benefits in clamping a board together, but again that is just my opinion and feeling 😉 and with the new Ultraclips they have eliminated a couple things people didn’t like about they old clips (the absence of an actual hook and the flopping around of the clip in skimode. I haven’t put mine through the wringer, but after a first test I have to say that I really like them.

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #797993
    HansGLudwig
    601 Posts

    A cheaper (old fashioned) option is a SplitRod.

    Firstlight sells them prefabbed for various binding systems or you can DIY it.

    Be sure to bookmark Splitboard.com's Recent Activity page...
    http://splitboard.com/activity-2/

    #799170
    Chewbacca
    97 Posts

    I personally like the voilé hooks better, I find the transition smoother. Also the overlap left to right is longer than the Karakram hooks. Ialso just got one of these:

    https://www.splitboards.eu/ersatzteile/sp-united/946/split-stabilizer-voelkl

    for 15€ at Fame Boardshop.

    Split Stabilizer

    I haven’t tested it yet.

    #799177
    bcall8
    125 Posts

    I have used k clips, voile hooks and Karakoram ultra clips. I have not tried the cam version of the voile clips. On most of the boards I have ridden I used clips from Karakoram because they felt like they made a tighter fitting board. However, I think this was mostly a mental thing that would bug me if I saw a little slop during transitions. I can’t say that I really noticed a huge difference while riding. I did have 1 DIY board that had voile hooks and it was very tight fitting. This board felt very solid. For ease of use I like the voile hooks the best. I have not been impressed with the ultra clips. I find that the adjustable hook can’t withstand the pressure and slides back so that the hooks aren’t that tight. After this happens i can even put the board back together without opening the latch. So at that point it’s basically a voile clip. I do think they would work better on one of those jones boards that have the bolt less bridge. My vote would be voile hooks if the board fit is tight, regular k clips if you have a little slop.

    Spark pucks rock. They are way better than the voile pucks especially if you are using spark bindings. The fit is more precise, stance options and setup are way better, and they do make for a more solid ride.

    #799189
    Snurfer
    1448 Posts

    Spark pucks rock. They are way better than the voile pucks especially if you are using spark bindings. The fit is more precise, stance options and setup are way better, and they do make for a more solid ride.

    +1 second season on these pucks and they are outstanding

    Shark Snowsurf Chuna
    Voile V-Tail 170 BC
    Voile One Ninety Five
    Spark R&D Arc

    #799452
    RideEverything
    11 Posts

    I have used k clips, voile hooks and Karakoram ultra clips. I have not tried the cam version of the voile clips. On most of the boards I have ridden I used clips from Karakoram because they felt like they made a tighter fitting board. However, I think this was mostly a mental thing that would bug me if I saw a little slop during transitions. I can’t say that I really noticed a huge difference while riding. I did have 1 DIY board that had voile hooks and it was very tight fitting. This board felt very solid. For ease of use I like the voile hooks the best. I have not been impressed with the ultra clips. I find that the adjustable hook can’t withstand the pressure and slides back so that the hooks aren’t that tight. After this happens i can even put the board back together without opening the latch. So at that point it’s basically a voile clip. I do think they would work better on one of those jones boards that have the bolt less bridge. My vote would be voile hooks if the board fit is tight, regular k clips if you have a little slop.

    Spark pucks rock. They are way better than the voile pucks especially if you are using spark bindings. The fit is more precise, stance options and setup are way better, and they do make for a more solid ride.

    Thank you for the fantastic reply!
    This is exactly what I was looking for in a response – real world use and an opinion of that experience.

    I’ve decided to stick with the Voile hooks for now. If I get a chance to easily pick up the Cam Hooks then I’ll try those out.
    Speaking with friends most that have tried the K-Clips say that for the snow conditions in our region they have a tendency to ice up and become difficult to use. Also, as has been stated earlier, the ease of use is better with the Voile Hooks.

    Thanks for the info on the Spark pucks.
    I think those will be my next upgrade.

    2007 Prior Khyber Split 170 (trad camber)
    2008 Spark R&D Blaze (modded)

    #799688
    FloImSchnee
    291 Posts

    The new Spark Crossbar Clips could help on that topic:

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