Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Taylor Mountain Avalanche
Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
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  • #576225
    dln
    146 Posts
    #650730
    nickstayner
    700 Posts

    Good stuff, and worthy of discussion. Though much of it is sort of Pass-centric, I think the lessons learned can apply to many heavily used backcountry areas. I’ll cross-post my comments from Steve’s site:
    I think people need to stop criticizing “Skier X” for risking the lives of unknown others. Not really a legit argument in the context. He has NO responsibility to UNKNOWN parties below him. His primary concern is managing the hazards the he and his party are exposed to.
    It’s the 100% the responsibility of the parties skiing through the runout to manage that hazard appropriately. Not the responsibility of the party thousands of feet above.
    To criticize the skier for managing avy hazard on the slope he and his party were about to ski because of potential “bystanders” below is misguided and, to me, just another example of how many Pass locals seem to downplay the very real hazards of the area.

    #650731
    jlag
    118 Posts

    @nickstayner wrote:

    Good stuff, and worthy of discussion. Though much of it is sort of Pass-centric, I think the lessons learned can apply to many heavily used backcountry areas. I’ll cross-post my comments from Steve’s site:
    I think people need to stop criticizing “Skier X” for risking the lives of unknown others. Not really a legit argument in the context. He has NO responsibility to UNKNOWN parties below him. His primary concern is managing the hazards the he and his party are exposed to.
    It’s the 100% the responsibility of the parties skiing through the runout to manage that hazard appropriately. Not the responsibility of the party thousands of feet above.
    To criticize the skier for managing avy hazard on the slope he and his party were about to ski because of potential “bystanders” below is misguided and, to me, just another example of how many Pass locals seem to downplay the very real hazards of the area.

    +1, couldn’t agree more.

    #650732
    UTAH
    830 Posts

    Deep slab instabilities are the scariest. Low probability, HIGH consequence. Quite a few years back a guy was killed when he triggered a slope in the Canyons sidecountry. The slope probably had about 100+ lines down it, completely tracked out and he happen to be the guy who found the sweet spot.

    #650733
    the.big.van
    15 Posts

    not sure that UNKNOWN below is really accurate here. I was on the pass that AM, many people out and about. Not unknown that people are likely in that exit route that from other runs.

    Yes the people exiting should be aware of above, but I have not seen many/any reports if any naturals that day. Agree that hazard reduction is valid, but in this case the parties involved had very good reason/knowledge to believe that there would be persons in that zone, and “bystanders” is BS here.

    NS did not mention but the person that triggered slid did not anticipate a slide of that size. Given the conditions it was not really unexpected, as it did not run during the storm cycle that I could see the day after with some clearing, or per the avi site. As far as applying to heavily used BC areas, this is a two way street, I do not think it gives one carte blanche to ski cut/cornice drop test slopes when one is aware that that it is likely that people are below, likewise do not lollygag in run outs.

    I have been on that slope in CONSIDERABLE conditions, but for storm snow not deep slab issues. I have skied out the out track in both, I have not seen any bystanders just being there, most if not all keep moving toward the parking lot for their car or rides to the top of the pass. There are posts from folks that could have been in that slide(luck?)

    I am not pushing blame one way or another, nor am I excusing actions. I am, for myself as I live here, expressing that in a crowded/semi crowded area that there is a shared responsibility to understand what your actions may lead to.

    #650734
    nickstayner
    700 Posts

    the.big.van: the “unknown” just means that it shouldn’t necessarily stop someone from mitigating avy hazard on a slope they’re about to ski. It’s the skier’s responsibility to know when he’s in avalanche terrain. Doesn’t get much more basic than that. An avalanche descending from above, whether it be natural or accidentally/intentionally human triggered is a HUGE part of the ballgame, and a part that doesn’t get given much respect around these parts (Bozeman and Jackson).

    As a backcountry skier/boarder/biler, it’s your responsibility to manage that avalanche path/runout the best way you can based on your level of acceptable risk. That there might be other skiers above you who could bring something down the poop chute should be a huge part of your equation. This is terrain management 101 and hopefully not new to you or anyone else on here.

    “Bystanders” was used in my post because that’s the light other people, on a different forum post, portrayed anyone crossing the SE Face avy path to be. Sorry for the cross-posting confusing. You and I both agree that people skiing across this avalanche runout should be aware of the hazards, not “bystanders”. That was the point I made on the other thread too.

    I guess this is where I differ from you (and many on Steve’s post too). Maybe attempting to trigger something in that path makes Greg a douchebag, maybe not. I think the important part is that behavior like that occurs, a party’s primary sense of responsibility should be keeping each other safe (which Greg was doing), and people skiing in/below/across avy paths and runouts need to be HYPER aware of objective hazards (especially on Teton Pass) and manage the terrain appropriately.

    #650735
    dln
    146 Posts

    A polarizing issue for the backcountry community . . .as evidenced by the plethora of comments on Steve’s blog.
    I am guilty of cutting cornices and ski-cutting lines. Some it what would be considered “high” traffic areas including teton pass.
    I land somewhere in the middle on this issue.
    If nothing else this is making me re-evaluate my procedures and responsibilities in the backcountry.
    Glad no one was killed in this incident.
    Deep slab instabilities . . . scary stuff. 😯

    #650736
    powderjunkie
    1666 Posts

    wow 😯

    rode Taylor last year, but not that slope – it was tempting but the consequences looked major.

    all I can say is it probably wasn’t the best decision to ride that slope that day, even for experienced locals.

    hangfire was mentioned somewhere – had the slope already slid or was that term missued in this situation.

    #650737
    nickstayner
    700 Posts

    Apparently GC was kicking hangfire off from a previous, smaller, natural release.

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